Entries for WineMaker Magazine's 2009 Competition

[geocorn]

Well, I for one can not figure out the judging. All of the Choc. Rasp. Ports and Orange Choc Port that did win, how did one not win. In addition,I entered a Pacific Quartet and did not win while others did. I entered wines that are HUGE successes when tasted that did not win. I am starting to feel there is some bias in the judging. No intentional, but there, no less.

 

[grapeman]

I think a lot of it comes from the fact that there are so many wines that the judging is probably done by teams of tasters. Depending on the team "at bat", some wines may not do well that would really blow a different team away. I guess there is never going to be a totally unbiased and fair game plan for a subjective judging like this. Can you imagine if every judge had to taste every wine? (Now that would be quite the undertaking!).

 

[Tom]

George, Appleman,

Do you also think its fair to those who make wine from grapes and 100% pure juice to be with 99% kit winners?

I think I was lucky as I beleive I was the only medal winner with 100% pure freshItalian Amarone juice. That is, it was not sterile.

 

[JimCook]

Here's something rather interesting from a statistical perspective: If you look at the gold (or other) medals for a 2008 kit wines (something that in my opinion doesn't have a chance of hitting adequate aging for development considering they should be mostly at or less than a year at the time of judging), a significant number of them come from Canadian winemakers. What's going on there? Different product, technique, or dumb luck? It makes me curious indeed.
- Jim

 

[geocorn]

tepe,


That is an excellent question and combining the 2 could be considered "unfair" to each. The fresh fruit guy has the opportunity to blow th kits out of the water if the juice/fruit is of good to exceptional quality. On the other hand, if the fruit is questionable or handled poorly, the kit should win hands down.


I don't understand the whole judging process and I think WineMaker Mag likes to keep it that way. For the time being having the 2 judged side by side is probably good, but I do see that changing.

 

[grapeman]

Tepe that is one reason why I entered most of my wines in the French/American Hybrid categories. I know if I win one of them, chances are very good there will be no kit wines aside mine. None of the kit makers seem to want to consider using them, probably due to continued reliable supply- but who knows for sure. You probably have never heard of any of the varieties I entered, but the fact is that they can make some very good wine - and I not only made the wine, I grew the grapes. I take pride in that as much as winning the medals. It is just plain rewarding to make a nice palatable drink from something I grew. Give it a try.

 

[Wine-O]

Appleman,
I did exceed my limit so I had Tara choose her favorites before I decided what to take a chance with. So between the 2 of us we entered 18. She entered a 2005 Staggs Leap District Merlot that should have won hands down, it won a gold this year in our North Jersey competition. I can't wait to see why they didn't think it was good enough. And my Orange Chocolate Port!!!...

 

[geocorn]

I have entered 3 different SL Merlots including a 2005 like you this year and NEVER won with it. I have never won any medals with any Winexpert products and it just baffles the heck out of me.

 

[Wine-O]

Thats pretty weird George. I'd like to know how they judged your Pacific Quartet, there seemed to be alot of winners with this one.

 

[Tom]

tepe,


That is an excellent question and combining the 2 could be considered "unfair" to each. The fresh fruit guy has the opportunity to blow th kits out of the water if the juice/fruit is of good to exceptional quality. On the other hand, if the fruit is questionable or handled poorly, the kit should win hands down.


I don't understand the whole judging process and I think WineMaker Mag likes to keep it that way. For the time being having the 2 judged side by side is probably good, but I do see that changing.

My wine club took a Gold in Apple, Silver For Blueberry and Bronze for Appllein the fruit catagory (very few entries)
Also notice some of the Gold in kits were 3 + years old.

 

[Tom]

Thats pretty weird George. I'd like to know how they judged your Pacific Quartet, there seemed to be alot of winners with this one.

George will have to wait for the scoring sheets to be mailed.
George, Appleman.. How long for the scoring sheets. Thelast time seamed to take forever.
Appleman did you get you WineMAker Mag yet?

 

[grapeman]

I have no idea about the scoring sheets. Heck Tepe I am still waiting for the new magazine. I also sent a picture in for them to post in the home vineyard section a month ago and it still isn't there- probably never will be.

 

[Tom]

I have no idea about the scoring sheets. Heck Tepe I am still waiting for the new magazine. I also sent a picture in for them to post in the home vineyard section a month ago and it still isn't there- probably never will be.

Are you so far off the beaten path that you use the Pony Express for mail?

 

[Waldo]

In my most humble but honest opinion.......This whole damned bunch is nothing but a bunch of winners !!!!

 

[Wade E]

I concur with the above post from Waldo!

 

[Tom]

I concur with the above post from Waldo!

Hey Wade, Only entered one wine and got a Bronze on it. Now that did make me "feel" good !

 

[joeswine]

well people i think their's a lot to be said about it kits and varietals,I entered my jersey peach 2/1st places ,rassberry 2/first places and my raspberry sharza ,not even a hello,

and my cab 1/1st place

any body can be bet of any given day ,oh well ................I guess that old addage stand their's no accounting for taste !

 

[Tom]

well people i think their's a lot to be said about it kits and varietals,I entered my jersey peach 2/1st places ,rassberry 2/first places and my raspberry sharza ,not even a hello,

and my cab 1/1st place

any body can be bet of any given day ,oh well ................I guess that old addage stand their's no accounting for taste !

We (I) know you make great wines. Can't figure why you didnt win. But our Wine Club did win 2 Gold, 2 silver and 2 Bronze.

 

[Wade E]

Cant believe you didnt win with that peach Joe!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[FineWino]

Well, I for one can not figure out the judging. All of the Choc. Rasp. Ports and Orange Choc Port that did win, how did one not win. In addition,I entered a Pacific Quartet and did not win while others did. I entered wines that are HUGE successes when tasted that did not win. I am starting to feel there is some bias in the judging. No intentional, but there, no less.

COL Bill, George, and myself had a long conversation about this whole judging topic over dinner last night. I think that it is next impossible to avoid some subjectivity in wine judging, and I would expect the magnitude of the WM Mag competition to compound that.


Looking at the numbers in the program, they had 4474wines with 844 flights, 5 wines/flight. 1118 judging hours, or approximately1.32 judging hours per flight. With 3 judges/panel, that translates into26 minutes/flight. This probably means that there were about30 min allocated per flight.


At 844 flights, that means 277 flights/day (accounting for "best of" flights). If wines are judged for 6 judging hours/day, at30 min/flight, that would be12 sessions/day. (277 flights/day)/(12 sessions/day)=23-24 flights/ session. With 3 judges/panel, that means there are probably over70 judges each day, and each judge will taste around 120 wines/day.


Granted, that is not exact, but if there is anything near70 judges there will be a lot of variation. Even using the UC Davis scoring system, between fatigue, inevitable personal bias, and the massive number of wines involved, there will be an element of chance.


One of the things we discussed to "test the system" would be to have the same wine entered by 3 or 4 people to see how each of the entries scores. In a perfect system they would all score the same, but I doubt that would happen here. Maybe we will find out next year.