Mosti Mondiale Difference btwn Mosti and WE Estate Series kits

[Jack on Rainy]

I just recieved my first two Mosti All Juice kits from George and note
his tutorial has some major differences from the instructions I have
been following for the WE kits I've been making. Hope you guys can help
me be less confused.



-George uses K Meta for sanitizing. I was told that EZ clean is both
cleaner and sanitzer. How much trouble am I in? Six WE kits going at
present.

-George notes the life of the sanitzer solution is 4-5 hours. I was told by a MN shop it was a month!

- If I go to adding camden tables immediately, how many per gallon for
addition the the wine, how many per gallon for sanitizing?

- Mosti adds oak at the beginning of secondary while WE adds it at the
beginning. Why one way or another? I would think cleaning would be
easier if in the primary. Is there a taste difference?

-Mosti does primary fermentation warmer than WE instructions 70-76 vs
65-75. I have been carrying about 68 - 70 thru secondary. Does that
make sense?

-Mosti adds a 24 hour degassing period. Should that be added to WE too?



Thanks for the posts. This is a great forum for newbies like me.

Jack

 

[Wade E]

In a jug the sanitizer will last about a month. open to air it
will only last about 4 hours. About 5 minutes to use it before
something is actually safe like sanitising bottles or equipment.Not
sure about the EZ clean but hope Masta or Peter Z will jump in on that
1. As far as adding campden tablets for longer storage of wine it is
3.5 per 6 gallon batch before bottling. Each tablet is approx. 30 ppm
per gallon of free SO2. I would imagine that the 68-70 would work fine
and that the #'s they have are just more prefered.

 

[geocorn]

Jack,


Please note the difference between EZ Clean and K-Meta. EZ Clean, One-Step, Straight-A are all oxygen based CLEANSERS and will last for 4-5 hours. K-Meta or Na-Meta is a sanitizer and will last for 2-3 months, if stored in an air-tight container. I always recommend cleaning with something like EZ Clean, then giving everything a sulfite rinse.


Mosti claims that the oak flavorings and tannins extracted in the presence of alcohol adds more than when added in the primary. I don't know enough to know who is correct.


Actually, both WE and MM recommend a fermentation temperature of 73 degrees. Mosti is more adamant in staying in the 70-76 range. WE instructions are more liberal, but everytime I talk with WE on a fermentation issue, they say the 70-76 range is the best and results in fewer stuck fermentations.


The de-gassing is a very interesting observation for which I do not have an answer. I will tell you that I hear a lot of positive comments about how well the MM kits de-gas and clear.

 

[jobe05]

I will tell you that I hear a lot of positive comments about how well the MM kits de-gas and clear.

I have not started degassing mine yet, Just racked off the lees from the second fermentation at an sg of .998. The MM kits (Fantazia) are already clearing very nicely.


My only concern was the lees did not compact very much, so during racking, I got a fair amount of lees back into the wine, but whithin a day, it falls right back out on its own, so it may require a racking or two more than recommended but thats ok, it may mean an extra bottle of wine from the kit, and less topping up.


I also started 2 Island Mist kits at the same time, because I added more sugar to bump up the ABV, they are still fermenting away at 1.002.


I'll be off to NYC infor about a week and half so they will sit like this till I return, I suspect the MM kits will be chrystal clear.

 

[PeterZ]

Jack,

This post will fill you in on the sanitizer question:

http://www.finevinewines.com//Wiz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2538&KW=FIFRA&PID=34439#34439

EZ Clean and it breathren oxygen based cleaners are organic peroxides. They donate active oxygen, just like C-Brite donates chlorine. You can get the same effect using drugstore Hydrogen Peroxide, just like you can dupicate C-Brite's action using generic bleach.

The important thing to remember is that they are not really cleansers, like soap. (Soap is a whole different area of chemistry called surfactant chemistry, and is, as far as I can tell, akin to alchemy.) They will attack organic crud, but they are very inefficient at it. They are labelled as cleansers to escape the EPA labelling and reporting requirements.

I can't stress enough that the road to sanitary nirvana is never letting any organic crud dry on your equipment. Rinse with hot water immediately after use. I know it's hard, after spending time bottling and corking a couple of batches, to wash out the carboys. We want to work on the labels, but clean the carboys first.

When you need the equipment again, rinse with the "cleanser" of choice - oxygen based or chlorine based, follow it up with "sanitizer" strength Na- or K-meta, and you are good to go.

As far as the degassing goes, there are plusses and minuses to the MM approach. I think it falls mostly on the plus side. CO2 in water exists as free CO2 in micro-bubbles, and dissolved as H2CO3. The relationship is based on pH. When you degas, you remove the free CO2, but then some of the H2CO3 converts to free CO2 to restore the equilibrium. This does not happen instantly, it takes some minutes/hours (I don't really know how long). The point is that if you remove all of the free CO2, and then clarify, a few hours later you might have more free CO2, and it will attach to the particles you are trying to settle out, floating them.

All in all, I think MM's procedure is a good one.

 

[Jack on Rainy]

Thanks for the info! The only thing you missed was comment on HOW MUCH TROUBLE I'm in for not using Kmeta.....

 

[Wade E]

If you cleaned it well you should be just fine, we as home winemakers
go way beyond what a lot of wineries do, youd be suprised at the fruit
flies and some cleanliness issues that they let get by. Alot of them
are out in the open air during hte summer that Ive seen. Mine are
locked in a room now with doors and screen just to keep little critters
from entering into my room when the fermenting is going.

 

[geocorn]

Only time will tell, but the EZ Clean will work most of the time. We use the K-Meta to be sure.

 

[Jack on Rainy]

Thanks! I'm hopeful!