Degassing in Carboy Question

[Saxman11290]

Hi all,

New kid on the block here about to start my first wine on 1/16. I have a few questions regarding optimal use of the small amount of equipment I have, and want to see if anyone could offer their advice as per my plan of attack.

So I will be brewing an Eclipse Columbia Valley Riesling by WinExpert kit in a basic starter kit that includes the following components:

7.8 gal Primary Fermenter with lid (and hole for air lock)
Racking tube - (24 inch , 3/8)
Bottle Filler - Spring loaded
Carboy Brush
Plastic Spoon (24 inch)
Econo-Lock Airlock
Bung - Better Bottle
Easy Clean - 8 Oz jar
Thermometer (stick on type)
Siphon Hose - 5/16th inch
Hydrometer
Hose Clamp
Better Bottle 6 Gallon (secondary fermenter / carboy)

This is pretty much an exact transcript of the inventory sent to me in my kit, so I hope there is no confusion with terminology (please excuse my noob-like lack of knowledge, I'll get there soon!)

I have heard that you can "just follow the instructions" pretty exactly that comes with a wine kit, and you should be good to go. However, I have noticed a few problems with following the instructions so exactly.

1) After primary fermentation in my bucket, I will naturally do secondary fermentation in the carboy (better bottle), however, I was thinking about degassing back in my primary fermenter, given the larger surface area of the liquid and I could avoid bubbly spill-over from too much gas coming out of the small carboy top. Also, as you have noticed, I only have a long plastic spoon to degas with, and not one of those drill-attached degassers. So my question is: Is it worth it to move my wine after secondary fermentation temporarily back into my primary fermenter for degassing stirring, and then move it back into the secondary fermenter for clearing? If everything is properly cleaned and sanitized, should this be a problem? Should I just stir like mad with my spoon in my secondary fermenter for degassing?

2) The next step in my winemaking kit instructions is called "racking and clarification", this is after I degas, clear and let sit for 8 days. In the racking and clarification step, the instructions recommend re-racking from secondary fermenter into ANOTHER carboy, however, as you can see above, I only have one carboy. SO, I was wondering if I could do a my little dance as described above and move the wine from secondary to primary, clean yeast / sediment out of carboy and then move back to secondary for this step. Does anyone see any problems with this approach?

These may seem like basic questions, and perhaps a little cumbersome, but I hope I can get some patient and knowledgeable members of the forum to help me out a little here. I hope to enjoy many more years of wine making, and sure don't want to mess this first batch up too badly to put a "bad taste" in my mouth about the whole thing.

Thanks in advance for your understanding, time and help!

 

[DoctorCAD]

Yep...moved hundreds of gallons from my only carboy to the bucket and back again until I finally broke down and got a few more carboys.

Following the directions will get you through the steps easily and correctly, but don't blindly use dates. One thing nice about wine is that time is always on your side, if you leave the wine in the primary until it gets down to 1.01 or 1.02 and leave it in the secondary for 6 months, it will still work, maybe even better. Kit times are for those want to get done ASAP.

1 year from start to drink is not out of the question!!! Wine simply gets better with time.

 

[robie]

You can rack back into the bucket to do the degassing. When you degas, do not stir so hard you are whipping air into the wine. The idea is to agitate the wine enough that the CO2 will release and come out as bubbles.

You really need to get yourself a drill stirrer for your next batch. I would spend a few extra bucks and get the stainless steel version, rather than the plactic one, which tends to bend over time.

Because you have only one carboy, you have no choice but the rack from the carboy back into the fermenter bucket; clean the carboy, then rack into the carboy again.

This is OK to start, but you really should get yourself another carboy. Also, if you have only one hydrometer, you would do yourself a good deed by buying a second. They break so easily, but are so important in the wine making process.

Good luck and have fun!

 

[Saxman11290]

Kit times are for those want to get done ASAP.
1 year from start to drink is not out of the question!!! Wine simply gets better with time.

Thanks DoctorCAD, I do plan to bulk age most of what I make this first time and not touch it for at least six months, maybe longer after bottling.

But I think I will have to try at least one bottle right after to prove to myself that I made wine!

 

[RegionRat]

Thanks DoctorCAD, I do plan to bulk age most of what I make this first time and not touch it for at least six months, maybe longer after bottling.

But I think I will have to try at least one bottle right after to prove to myself that I made wine!

If you sneak a bottle out while racking you are gonna have to replace it along with the volume lost while leaving lee behind.

This is what I have been doing after a few months of bulk aging.

When I go to rack, I rack from 6 gallon carboy to a 5 gallon. I then have 4 maybe 4 1/2 bottles worth of wine left in the 6 gallon I can bottle to drink. When I do this I dont have to find something to top off with and I get to drink a little bit.

RR

 

[Arne]

If you sneak a bottle out while racking you are gonna have to replace it along with the volume lost while leaving lee behind.

This is what I have been doing after a few months of bulk aging.

When I go to rack, I rack from 6 gallon carboy to a 5 gallon. I then have 4 maybe 4 1/2 bottles worth of wine left in the 6 gallon I can bottle to drink. When I do this I dont have to find something to top off with and I get to drink a little bit.

RR

And so the wine gremlins appear. Them sneaky little guys that get in your winery and drink the wine while you are not looking. If you don't have enough, I got a couple of them I would give you if only I could catch em. Arne.

 

[Saxman11290]

If you sneak a bottle out while racking you are gonna have to replace it along with the volume lost while leaving lee behind.

This is what I have been doing after a few months of bulk aging.

RR

Ah, pardon my lack of jargon, but does bulk aging occur before bottling or after? I assumed it meant after you bottle, you just leave the bottle alone for 6 months ... but your phrasing seems to suggest otherwise.

Perhaps I used the term wrong, but I was planning to "bulk age" as in, leave most of my already bottled wine alone for 6 months or more, and perhaps try out one or two bottles directly after bottling, not letting them sit with the rest of the "bulk".

If you do in fact age the wine in the carboy for longer before bottling, how long can you do this for, and what is the benefit?

Thanks for your help and knowledge, already learning a lot!

 

[Bartman]

You are confusing "bulk-aging" and "bottle-aging" which is understandable since you have done neither before! Bulk-aging is letting the wine sit in the carboy for some number of months, while bottle-aging is - surprise! - letting it rest in the bottle instead. There are a number of opinions about the pros and cons of each, and a search of the forum topics will give you lots of stuff to read, but it's fairly simple choice if you only have one carboy and want to make more than one wine at a time - you will have to bottle the first when you are starting the second so you can move the second into the carboy at the appropriate time.

I personally bulk-age all of my red wines for at least six months and then try to bottle-age them another six months or more, but once they are in the bottle, there are no guarantees it won't get cracked open!

 

[Saxman11290]

but once they are in the bottle, there are no guarantees it won't get cracked open!

Ah I see. So it seems bulk aging, besides perhaps improving your wine, also provides an "insurance" against all of your wine being consumed before aging has occurred. Clever

 

[ldmack3]

Saxman:
Personally I splash rack from primary to carboy to help degass. Then after fermentation is complete, rack back to the bucket to degas, add kmeta, sorbate, fining, etc. That way there is no issue with foaming over on the floor. Learned that the hard way.... then splash rack to carboy to let it clear. After 30 days I consider it as completed and it is ready to rack to a barrell or bulk age. I try to bottle 6 months after fining is completed on an inexpensive kit or 1 year on whole juice from the time fining is completed.
Works for me anyway. Some think this is too much O2 exposure and may be but I can never keep mine for more than a few years....seems I always get too thirsty.

 

[Olbuscap]

Saxman,
Welcome to a fantastic hobby. If, in the days following starting of fermentation, you find yourself amused for hours by bubbles rising to the surface, you are probably in trouble!! Long term trouble!!. Your are in the exact place that I was in a mere 30 months ago. If this is the finding, start dropping your loose change into a bottle for future "expansion" purposes. As stated above, the second hydrometer, then additional equipment.
My first "expansion" was a second 6 gallon Better Bottle. It should have been a 6 gallon GLASS carboy. This starts you off in the direction of eventually doing vacuum racking/degassing. Look at the Equipment forum and read the postings regarding racking, degassing, and the Allinone vacuum pump.
But most importantly, enjoy your newfound past time. And, once your wine is into the secondary, use "time" to your advantage. Don't rush the end result.

 

[Saxman11290]

Thanks to everyone so far for the very helpful advice!

I know I can probably spend weeks reading the forums here and answer these questions myself, but time is precious, as I am a graduate student and spend more hours than I'd like studying my brains out.

It is a marvelous thing to be able to anonymously and without qualification, join a digital community where kind people share their knowledge and experience. I have found this experience on several fora on the internet, and hope to increase my time spent here in the future.

Until then, bottoms up, and stay thirsty!

 

[Saxman11290]

Here is a follow up question:

I am planning to degas in about a week, and will be doing so in my primary fermenter bucket as discussed above. I do not have a power drill or power drill degassing attachment (may acquire one at a later time). All I have at the moment is a large stir stick that came with my starter kit.

So here's the question:

How do you know you are done with degassing? It seems that folks who use the power drill method just give it a spin for a few minutes and call it a day (or do they?). Since I will be stirring by hand with a stir stick, will this take me a lot longer? If so, how long? 10 minutes? An hour? What should I be looking for in terms of sings that the degassing process is complete, or that I have degassed enough?

Thanks again for the help!

 

[DaveL]

Here is a follow up question:

I am planning to degas in about a week, and will be doing so in my primary fermenter bucket as discussed above. I do not have a power drill or power drill degassing attachment (may acquire one at a later time). All I have at the moment is a large stir stick that came with my starter kit.

So here's the question:

How do you know you are done with degassing? It seems that folks who use the power drill method just give it a spin for a few minutes and call it a day (or do they?). Since I will be stirring by hand with a stir stick, will this take me a lot longer? If so, how long? 10 minutes? An hour? What should I be looking for in terms of sings that the degassing process is complete, or that I have degassed enough?


.

Thanks again for the help!

I am a newbie also, but I think if you bulk age it it will degas itself anyway