bland

[Krhamm]

First, i like to say that this is a great forum. I'm a newbie and glad to find this website. I do have a few questions and i appreciate any support that you may have. First, some of my wines seems a little bland. More water down than a good body flavor. I use Welch's concentrates. Will it help if i add more concentrate to start off with and to finish when i sweeten? Also, i've been using spring water to top off with when i rack the wine. Secondly, it seems that my wines have a little sulfate smell or taste to it. What causes this? I'm thinking it's coming from the campden whenever i sweeten the wine back up. Could that be and is there anyway to eliminate this smell or taste?

 

[winemaker_3352]

Welcome aboard!!

I would not use water to top off with - that is what is causing the "bland" taste. Adding water just waters down the wine leaving it without much body to it. Top off with a like wine or juice.

What do you mean by sulfate smell? Rotten egg smell?

If you added too much campden in you could have a strong sulphite smell to it. You could aerate this - but if it is bottled - you could just let it sit for a while. Usually a good splash racking will help this out.

How much campden and how often are you adding it?

 

[Duster]

I won't comment on the sulfate smell or taste, I would only be guessing and I am sure some here will better answer that question. As far as flavor, I would suggest not adding water to top up with but rather more juice. This will add some sugar back into the wine but will ferment out. when wine is dry add F-pack to it by reducing some juice over low heat by half, I usually shoot for 1 cup of juice per gallon. Then back sweeten to taste. Just remember to add pat. sorbate before adding the F-pack and back sweating.

 

[Duster]

I won't comment on the sulfate smell or taste, I would only be guessing and I am sure some here will better answer that question. As far as flavor, I would suggest not adding water to top up with but rather more juice. This will add some sugar back into the wine but will ferment out. when wine is dry add F-pack to it by reducing some juice over low heat by half, I usually shoot for 1 cup of juice per gallon. Then back sweeten to taste. Just remember to add pat. sorbate before adding the F-pack and back sweating.

looks like Jon beet me to it

 

[abefroman]

Will it help if i add more concentrate to start off with and to finish when i sweeten?

Don't add more concentrate in the beginning, add it at the end, after you stabilize.

 

[woodsxdragon]

i actually had this issue with one of my wine also... water top off left it bland during racking so i racked it to a bucket and stirred just to test an idea... reracked back to the jug and it tasted so much better then. i'm wondering if the water doesnt mix and thats the bland taste.

 

[Runningwolf]

Krhamm, We really need to see your recipe to help you out with your recipe. What kind of wine was this and were you making it from just Welches concentrate. Besides what Jon said my guess is you didn't use enough concentrate in the beginning and still need to add more in the end for flavor. Do not add any more water after fermentation, use a like juice, f-pac or more concentrate.

 

[Tom]

With concentrate you will not get a full body wine. Try some of the bigger kit wines if thats what you want. I do alot of wines from CA, Italy and Chile from theit juices (not to be confused with concentrate).
Also try something lighte like fruit wine from fresh fruit.

Welcome to the forum...

 

[KevininPa]

Without seeing your recipe, i tend to agree with Runningwolf. If your not using enough concentrate up front, your acid might be low and this might give you a perceived bland taste. Also not sure if you are using any acid or acid blend additions.

Krhamm, We really need to see your recipe to help you out with your recipe. What kind of wine was this and were you making it from just Welches concentrate. Besides what Jon said my guess is you didn't use enough concentrate in the beginning and still need to add more in the end for flavor. Do not add any more water after fermentation, use a like juice, f-pac or more concentrate.

 

[Krhamm]

Krhamm, We really need to see your recipe to help you out with your recipe. What kind of wine was this and were you making it from just Welches concentrate. Besides what Jon said my guess is you didn't use enough concentrate in the beginning and still need to add more in the end for flavor. Do not add any more water after fermentation, use a like juice, f-pac or more concentrate.

Here's the basic of my recipe:
2 cans of welch's 100% frozen grape juice
water to fill to a gallon
added sugar to reach around 1.085-1.095 range
1 tsp of acid blend
1/2 tsp pectic enzyme
1 tsp nutrient
1 campden tablet at beginning
red star montracket yeast
After 3-4 rackings
Ferment to dry and then added another campden tablet and potassium sorbate to sweeten back up

Should i add another can of concentrate at the beginning? Also, from what i've been reading i can use more frozen concentrate (at room temp) or welch's juice (that don't have any sorbate) to top up with. Is that correct and should this affect acid level alot? Also, what exactly is f-pac? Then when i finish the wine, i could use some more juice to back sweeten as well, right?
The wine that i make now don't have any rotten egg smell to it. I think that i'm lacking the acid level and the flavor because of too much water when topping up that seems to have a sulfite taste to it. I appreciate everyones help so far.

 

[Tom]

You need 3-4 12oz cans of concentrate per gallon. add concentrate 1st then water to 1 gallon. get another so you can make a f-pac if making a fruit wine.
For body ad 1/2# raisins per gallon
I dont like montrachet try RC212 if it a concord
ferment to 1.010 rack and let it finish dry .990. Then add 1 campton tab and 1/2tsp sorbate. Wait 24-36hours. Now you didnt say What Welches you are making if its a concord or white (Niagara) do not backsewwten.
There is a stickie for a f-pac

 

[Krhamm]

Welcome aboard!!

I would not use water to top off with - that is what is causing the "bland" taste. Adding water just waters down the wine leaving it without much body to it. Top off with a like wine or juice.

What do you mean by sulfate smell? Rotten egg smell?

If you added too much campden in you could have a strong sulphite smell to it. You could aerate this - but if it is bottled - you could just let it sit for a while. Usually a good splash racking will help this out.

How much campden and how often are you adding it?

After my second racking, this is when i lose my most volume due to the lees. When i top up to make up for that lost volume, how would i go about adding with juice? Do i need to add k-meta when i add it? And will the k-meta slow down or stop the process of turning yeast into alcohol?

 

[abefroman]

After my second racking, this is when i lose my most volume due to the lees. When i top up to make up for that lost volume, how would i go about adding with juice? Do i need to add k-meta when i add it? And will the k-meta slow down or stop the process of turning yeast into alcohol?

Add a similar wine. You don't want to add sugar until it is stabalized.

K-meta and sorbate, usually stops the yeast (it coats it, but that can wear off over time).

 

[Duster]

After my second racking, this is when i lose my most volume due to the lees. When i top up to make up for that lost volume, how would i go about adding with juice? Do i need to add k-meta when i add it? And will the k-meta slow down or stop the process of turning yeast into alcohol?

I top up with Juice all the time, ya this adds sugar back to the wine but it isn't done fermenting yet anyway. The juice has been pasteurized so I don't worry about K-meta at that point. It does effect the ABV because the juice added does not contain as much sugar as the initial must but the effect is less than topping up with water alone.

 

[winemaker_3352]

After my second racking, this is when i lose my most volume due to the lees. When i top up to make up for that lost volume, how would i go about adding with juice? Do i need to add k-meta when i add it? And will the k-meta slow down or stop the process of turning yeast into alcohol?

At this point taking a little lees doesn't hurt a bit - you are wasting a lot of the wine b/c of this. When racking prop the carboy up with a 2 x 4 block and use a racking cane and siphon off.

 

[Wade E]

Biggest problm you have is not using enough concentrate and thats making it bland, second problem is not making more then needed to allow for having enoug later. Like Tom said, use 3 1/2 -4 cans per gallon and the flavor will be much better and also make 1 1/2 gallons approx. instead of just and after all the racking you will be right on target. In the beginning you are using a bucket so volume is no issue, after that you will need a magnum or 1/2 gallon jug or 3 liter jug with a bung to fit it and airlocks. These very inxpensive things make making wine so much easier and much more enjoyable when the results are what you wanted. Normal 750ml, 375ml, and magnum bottles need a #2 or #3 rubber bung while the 1/2 gallon, 3 liter, 4 liter and 1 gallon jugs will need a #6 or #6.5 rubber bung. All standard airlocks are the same and will fit any of these bungs.