Bad Endings and New Beginnings

[chasemandingo]

So I think the apple wine I was making is turning to apple cider vinegar. I used locally sourced apple cider(expensive) and shot for a abv of 10%. Racked to secondary and let sit for a month to drop lees. When I checked on it one day there was renewed activity. Small bubbles rising and a ring of bubbles on top of the wine. I think I can detect the odor of acetic acid. So, I'm going to check one more time today and if I can smell vinegar I am going to dump it clean my carboy well and rack my blueberry pomegranate wine into the carboy. Then I will be mixing up my next batch. Elderberry! I just weighed out my frozen berries and they only came in at 2 lbs 10 oz. I wanna make a three gallon batch. So I'm thinking adding a 3lbs bag of frozen blueberries, and 3 cans of welchs concord. What you guys think?

 

[Julie]

Vinegar isn't normally that easy to make, you sure you don't have an h2s problem? Try splash racking and see if that doesn't help some.

 

[chasemandingo]

I could do that. I had a a blueberry melomel made JAOM style that turned to vinegar in my closet. So I have had that happen before. I will rack it once I have an open carboy. I don't have a five gallon free so I guess I will have to rack my blueberry pom into a green gallon and two one gallons.

 

[Tenbears]

If h2s and splash racking does not do the job whisk a bit with a copper whisk,

As for your elderberry 1 pound per gallon is very marginal, I would opt to add blackberries rather than blueberries, I feel that the former lends itself better to the elderberries.

 

[chasemandingo]

Thanks for the input. Blackberries are more expensive though. I was kinda going by price point since 3lbs of blueberries are only 11.00 dollars and blackberries would run around 15.00 dollars.

 

[dralarms]

Whats 4 bucks when you're trying to make something good

 

[BernardSmith]

I think Julie's point is important. I don't believe that it is easy to transform wine into vinegar just like that. You really need to inoculate your wine with the bacteria that make acetic acid and I think that the CO2 in your wine and SO2 from K-meta really inhibit the work of this bacterium. Also, I think (but am less certain) that a low pH and a high ABV do not provide a good host for this bacterium (which is why when you want to make vinegar you dilute your wine), while some commercial wine yeasts are designed to provide additional protection.
If you have already had one bout with this problem I wonder if a large colony of this bacterium might be in your winery or in your equipment.

 

[Julie]

Not to question you but I don't believe you made vinegar with a prior batch anymore than you made it now. I just dumped a gallon of peach spice I was experimenting with, I totally forgot about it and it was in a corner with a pile of empty gallon jugs in front of it. Anyway, airlock was dry, it sat for a year with no k-meta added to it and it wasn't vinegar. It was oxidized, actually it was REALLY oxidized!

I just can't see a wine turning to vinegar within a month's time, especially when it was 10% ABV.

 

[chasemandingo]

Well, I'm not saying that it is like taking a whiff out of a bottle of white distilled, but a hint of something is detectable that doesn't belong. The fact that there are bubbles means something is alive and metabolizing something in there. Active fermentation is done (i.e. wine is dry) and this is too much for off gassing. So something is going on. It is sitting on some lees so perhaps there are still yeast in there metabolizing something. However, the smell really resembles acetic acid.

 

[retruck1980]

I made 10 Gallons of dandelion wine and it turned really bitter what i do wrong???

 

[Tenbears]

I made 10 Gallons of dandelion wine and it turned really bitter what i do wrong???

can you provide more information, Did it get bitter when it was green, or after time, was it bulk aged, or bottled? if the latter at what age was it bottled, how much Kmet was in it,? Potassium Sorbate? Your query equates to saying to a mechanic, My car quit running what is wrong? To assess, and offer reliable suggestions more precise information is necessary.

 

[WVMountaineerJack]

When making anything from cider its pretty easy to get it to go to vinegar, did you sulfite it at the start? Usually if you got a vinegar thing going its not just a wiff that is hard to pin down, its pretty clear. Your small bubbles could just be degassing or even MLF. If it is vinegar how are you going to clean your carboy. Also its obvious you need to buy more carboys, you shouldnt be trying to hurry one batch out of a carboy to make another. WVMJ

So I think the apple wine I was making is turning to apple cider vinegar. I used locally sourced apple cider(expensive) and shot for a abv of 10%. Racked to secondary and let sit for a month to drop lees. When I checked on it one day there was renewed activity. Small bubbles rising and a ring of bubbles on top of the wine. I think I can detect the odor of acetic acid. So, I'm going to check one more time today and if I can smell vinegar I am going to dump it clean my carboy well and rack my blueberry pomegranate wine into the carboy. Then I will be mixing up my next batch. Elderberry! I just weighed out my frozen berries and they only came in at 2 lbs 10 oz. I wanna make a three gallon batch. So I'm thinking adding a 3lbs bag of frozen blueberries, and 3 cans of welchs concord. What you guys think?

 

[WVMountaineerJack]

You should start another thread for this and welcome to the list. WVMJ

I made 10 Gallons of dandelion wine and it turned really bitter what i do wrong???

 

[WVMountaineerJack]

You dont even have enough elderberries for a gallon of wine let alone 3. Mixing with other berries is a good option, we like black raspberry, blackberries and even blueberries work well. Think about tossing in some oak during the secondary to add a little more flavor. WVMJ

So I think the apple wine I was making is turning to apple cider vinegar. I used locally sourced apple cider(expensive) and shot for a abv of 10%. Racked to secondary and let sit for a month to drop lees. When I checked on it one day there was renewed activity. Small bubbles rising and a ring of bubbles on top of the wine. I think I can detect the odor of acetic acid. So, I'm going to check one more time today and if I can smell vinegar I am going to dump it clean my carboy well and rack my blueberry pomegranate wine into the carboy. Then I will be mixing up my next batch. Elderberry! I just weighed out my frozen berries and they only came in at 2 lbs 10 oz. I wanna make a three gallon batch. So I'm thinking adding a 3lbs bag of frozen blueberries, and 3 cans of welchs concord. What you guys think?

 

[chasemandingo]

Hey Jack! Love your website by the way. I had a buddy get me the elderberries and he went out late in the season and that was all the birds left for me. I knew from the start it would be enough on its own to make any wine. I just bought another carboy tonight. I started making beer and that is taking up too many carboys now. Need to buy beer bottles, ARGH!!!!!!!! Anyway, I will probably clean the carboy with one step and sanitize with star san.