Apfelwein/Cider Batch, couppla questions

[cdevrard]

Hey All,

Working on a new batch of Cider derived wine and had a few questions. I'll ask 'em first and then post the recipe.

- I am shooting for a 3.5 ph. Good/bad/indifferent?
- I am thinking about trying oak for the first time. I have some LD Carlson medium toast French oak chips. It is a 4oz bag and says it is sufficient for 25 gallons. I have heard it is easy to over oak and I have never done this before. How much would you add and when?

Thanks,

Here is the recipe so far

- 6 Gal local cider, not pasteurized no preservatives.
- 4.5 Lbs. dark brown sugar (shooting for 1.090 SG)
- 3 cups raisins, put through blender and in nylon bag
- 4 tsp acid blend (so far, creeping up on 3.50 ph)
- 30 drops liquid pectic enzyme (not added yet)
- 1/4 tsp. K Meta
- 9 grams Fermaid K, to be step fed (not added yet)
- Bentonite - addition to be made in second day of fermentation
- Lalivn D47 Yeast

I am shooting for a starting SG of 1.090 because I can't seem to get D47 down below 1.000 SG. I have done 3 other batches with it and have landed somewhere between 1.006 and 1.003 on all of them and I'd like a finished ABV of about 11-12%

In about 12 hours I'll add the pectic enzyme and get a yeast starter going. Then pitch the yeast tomorrow morning around this time. I'm going to try and keep the ferment below 70*-ish as I am shooting for a big apple flavor.

What say you?

Thanks!

CE

 

[BernardSmith]

Hi CE. Others on this forum may disagree with me but I am not sure there is any need to control the acid level downwards at this time. Fermentation will make your juice more acidic and as long as the acid level of the must is reasonable (and apple juice would be) I would play with acid blend after I have racked into the secondary. I don't have the equipment to measure SO2 levels but IMO the only good reason to measure pH is to get a better handle on how much k-meta you want to add at each racking. For TA (the acidity you get from tasting) I think your tongue is a far better judge than any pH meter (not that pH meters give you a TA reading by themselves).
Bentonite: Again, others may offer very different opinions but my experience with cider has been that my ciders clear with no problem as long as I add pectic enzyme. I tend to add bentonite just as you are doing when I ferment berries but cider has never posed for me any problem clearing.
Last point: what was the gravity of the pressed apple juice. I would think that you may need more than 4.5 lbs of sugar to raise the gravity to 1.090. My experience with apple cider is that pressed juice is about 1.045 - 1.050 and that means that you need a pound of sugar or more per gallon... But if the growing season where you are was very dry I think the apples may have more sugar and so my estimation may be off. Good luck

 

[cdevrard]

Bernard, that is very helpful. I already got the ph down to 3.54 (original ph was 3.73) so I guess we'll see what happens!

You are spot on with the sugar. Original SG was 1.054. I added 2 more cups of brn sugar and of course the raisins probably added some too. Now I am at 1.088, but my must is still very cold (about 45*) so I'm going to let it warm up over night and get another reading in the morning.

As for the bentonite, that is great to hear. I didn't want to mess with it anyhow! Guess I'll just try letting the pectic enzyme do the trick.

Thanks again.


Anyone have any experience with the oak?

Hi CE. Others on this forum may disagree with me but I am not sure there is any need to control the acid level downwards at this time. Fermentation will make your juice more acidic and as long as the acid level of the must is reasonable (and apple juice would be) I would play with acid blend after I have racked into the secondary. I don't have the equipment to measure SO2 levels but IMO the only good reason to measure pH is to get a better handle on how much k-meta you want to add at each racking. For TA (the acidity you get from tasting) I think your tongue is a far better judge than any pH meter (not that pH meters give you a TA reading by themselves).
Bentonite: Again, others may offer very different opinions but my experience with cider has been that my ciders clear with no problem as long as I add pectic enzyme. I tend to add bentonite just as you are doing when I ferment berries but cider has never posed for me any problem clearing.
Last point: what was the gravity of the pressed apple juice. I would think that you may need more than 4.5 lbs of sugar to raise the gravity to 1.090. My experience with apple cider is that pressed juice is about 1.045 - 1.050 and that means that you need a pound of sugar or more per gallon... But if the growing season where you are was very dry I think the apples may have more sugar and so my estimation may be off. Good luck

 

[WaterWolf]

Depends what kind of result you want to get with the oak. If you add it in the primary fermenter you will get a more mellow, golden syrup kind of effect from the oak, whereas if you add it to the hard cider / apple wine right at the end then you'll get a stronger oakier flavour. I personally add it in the primary when making hard cider, but it's something that is worth experimenting with.

 

[cdevrard]

Any ideas of how much/volume of chips to add?

Thinking maybe to do it in primary.

Thanks!

Depends what kind of result you want to get with the oak. If you add it in the primary fermenter you will get a more mellow, golden syrup kind of effect from the oak, whereas if you add it to the hard cider / apple wine right at the end then you'll get a stronger oakier flavour. I personally add it in the primary when making hard cider, but it's something that is worth experimenting with.

 

[Elmer]

Any ideas of how much/volume of chips to add?

Thinking maybe to do it in primary.

Thanks!

If you have the space split your cider into separate containers either for secondary or ageing. Add oak to one and compare later down the road.
Let us know how it turns out.

I was going to add oak to my primary, but held back and this is my first Low ABV cider and want to see what that is like!

 

[cdevrard]

Elmer that would certainly be the prudent thing to do. As it is, I only have one Carboy of appropriate size to age in. Guess I need some new ones!

Anyhow, I went ahead and did a conservative 1/4 cup in a nylon stocking and pitched 'em in.

I'm excited about this batch. It smells all apple-lie, brown sugar-ie and raisin-ie. I think ti is gonna be gooooood!

CE

 

[Elmer]

I have a 3 gallon batch, which is going to be aged in 3 separate 1 gallon jugs.
I intend to oak 1,
maybe carbonate 1
& leave 1 still & unoaked