Any New Vineyards planned?

[jobe05]

rrawhide just sent me a huge bunch of Syrah and some Merlot cuttings from California. I'll get these planted tomorrow, some in the garden to root and some in Pots inside, in a more controlled environment.

Thanks Rick! I appreciate it.

 

[grapeman]

Hope they root and grow well for you there Jobe. Most of us aren't warm enough to grow those varieties. You may also lose them in a few years when the phylloxera gets too bad and kills the roots. Most of the locations in the US need rootstock resistant to it to survive more than two or three years. That's why most of the vinifera is sold grafted. Some locations on the west coast don't have the problem yet and that is one of the reasons why plant material isn't supposed to ship into or out of California without inspection. Our native American varieties and hybrids are resistant to the root louse (phylloxera) and don't need grafting. That is the reason the Wine industry was almost wiped out in the 1800's. Some of the insect pest was imported into France on vines brought in. Be cautious and monitor their growth . I hope you have a good spot and don't get them as a problem.

 

[AlFulchino]

speaking of phylloxera......i have seen it on some of my foliage here and there and usually i just rip off those leaves....has anyone here who is growing hybrids or native american grapes lost any vines ever from this louse or maybe know of someone who has lost a vine or two?

 

[gaudet]

Been meaning to post here. I am planning a tiny vineyard in my back yard. I set up four 20' trellis lines for my 4 muscadine vines( 1 carlos, 1 dixie red, and 2 ison variety). I planted this all back in December and buried it under hay until the springtime. I will take some pictures of it and post them soon. But its really only 4 posts in the ground surrounded by hay right now. Thanks to Cracked Cork, I found a vineyard that is selling elderberry plants. I bought 4 varieties to plant in my front yard along the fence line. (John, York, Adams, and Nova) They will be shipped out on Feb 23. We also have two more citrus trees that need to go into the ground. (a blood orange tree and a key lime tree)

 

[bruno]

I have on order 400 Marquette, 300 Frontenac, 300 Swenson Red, 220 Brianna, and 350 Cayuga white which will be delivered in May. I have recruited all my family and friends to help with the planting. Sure hope they all show up.

 

[grapeman]

I see this is you r first post so Welcome Bruno!


That is an ambitious project Bruno. Looks like an acre and a half to two acres there. Fill us in when you can on particulars. Where are you located? It looks like you prefer reds a bit. I think you have been bitten by the vineyard bug! Great luck to you! Start your own thread here as you go and keep us filled in.

 

[grapeman]

gaudet you will have yourseldf a nice selection of fruit there to work with soon. Don't forget the pictures!

 

[NorthernWinos]

bruno....Welcome...
You have a HUGE undertaking ahead of yourself....

Those look like pretty hardy grapes....Are you in the Northern part of the country???

Keep us Posted on your progress and intension.

 

[bruno]

I'm in Rose City, about 65 miles north of Saginaw. Yes, it gets cold here so all vines are rated very hardy. I have approx 2.5 acres I will plant. Have spent all last summer prepping my future vineyard. It's an old corn field, last planted about 15 years ago. Had to first round-up all the quack grass, till it under, then work up the field using a 2 blade plow, 9' rake and 4' roto tiller. At the end of the summer, it was looking pretty good. N to S gentle slop, so it should be ideal. Also strung about a mile of wire making a 7.5' deer fence. So far, not a single deer has invaded.

 

[grapeman]

You really have been doing your homework and vineyard preparations. Even a deer fence before planting. Great job. I look forward to reading more in the future.

 

[AlFulchino]

Bruno sounds great....your similar to me in acreage and varieties and quantity....bone up on 1 more large topic now in addition to what you already have done......spraying....equipment, products, pests and diseases and most of all get a schedule written down ....in all likeliehood you will have a free pass on many issues for about a month or two or even three..it depends on the weather in your area this upcoming season..nevertheless...hearken to what i am saying...get what you need before you need it...Gaudet the same goes for you......write down a spray schedule on a calendar


trust me...when you plant your vines they will look beautiful...when you water them..they will look beautiful...when you weed thenthey will look beautiful...when you fertilize they will look beautiful...when you prune and train they will look beautiful....and then one day/night in ?month? you will spot powdery mildew, maybe downy mildew...maybe anthracnose...maybe grape cane girdler..may jap beetles in a thousand score and like the old Aamco commercial which said you can pay me now (cheap maintenance) or pay me later ( a new tranny) you will one day have to pay the piper


you will...yes you....you the next person in a long line of wine grape dreamers (like me)...you will


do the due diligence w the pest and disease issue now and it will remain just that an issue.....dont do it and it will without a doubt become a wasted summer


write down a schedule

write down a schedule

write down a schedule

write down a schedule

write down a schedule


are you reapeating after me yet?

 

[AlFulchino]

"So far, not a single deer has invaded. "


and bank robbers dont rob an empty bank!

 

[Jack on Rainy]

No more new vines up here on de-frozen-tundra....Think the very hardy ones are the only ones we can safely grow.

Scouting out some hardy Black Raspberries....

NW,
I don't think grapes fare very well in our country either. Cold winters and shallow soil depths with bedrock very close to the surface. I sure would be interested in some hardy blackberries tho. If you find a source, would you send it along please? (BTW the finest balckberries I have ever seen are out in Dean's country. They are all OVER the place and they are beautiful)

 

[NorthernWinos]

We do have some vines....

Our soil is black sandy clay...very nice.

Vines...
Extremely to Very Hardy Beta, Valiant, King of the North for reds [purples].

Louise Swenson, Prairie Star, Baltic Amber for whites...

Have a row of Swenson Red and Edelweiss that grow on panels and we lay down and cover with straw...

Have a row of young Frontenac and Frontenac Gris let them hang on the wires to truly test them...before I get too attached.

We use to live down in the central part of the state.....Pequot Lakes....had Black Raspberries growing in the woods and pasture. Much to my surprise I see a nursery in NY selling Pequot Black raspberries...I sent an order off today for 12 plants...plus will try to go down and dig some plants this spring from an old neighbor...

Here is the link to St. Lawrence Nursery...Blk Raspberries at the bottom of the page...
http://www.sln.potsdam.ny.us/raspberries.html

They are a Black Raspberry [the core stays on the plant when picked] where as Blackberries retain the core for a firmer berry.

Always wondered how they'd do under cultivation...Hope they have them in stock.

ByTheWay, I contacted the fellow in Pequot Lakes [Bramble Berry Farm] He did not have any plants locally for sale this spring...so went with Plan A and ordered them from SLN.

 

[AlFulchino]

NW tell me your opinion about the wine or just the grapes from the Prairie Star vines

 

[NorthernWinos]

Al F...so far I have just tasted the grapes...threw them in with others for a blended wine last fall....not enough of any for a batch.

They were very crisp and had a distinct flavor....maybe citrusy...
They claim to have brittle vines...break off easily...kind of noticed that with the few I have...
They also claim they are good blended with Louise Swenson....Hope someday to have enough for a nice blended wine of just the two.

 

[grapeman]

Al the Prairie Star at Willsboro had terrible breakage in the spring - which was really a shame. As a result only a few vines had a decent crop. Those that had them did really nice. They are a very attractive thin long cluster with medium sized berries. The flavor is definitely citrusy and very pleasant. I haven't tasted wine from them yet, but we were able to send enough grapes to Cornell to make a 6 gallon batch. We will be having some kind of tastings at this spring/summer events. Dates are yet to be determined.
Numbers from the Prairie Star- berry Weight 2.01 grams, Brix 19.2, pH 3.58, and TA 9.5. Check page 5 of this file from Cornell. Those pictures were taken from the harvest date of St. Croix and Prairie Star.
http://blogs.cce.cornell.edu/grapes/files/2008/10/veraison-to-harvest-2008-_5.pdf


I think if the vines were trained to allow for early tying without bending the shoots that it could do very well here in the Northeast. They are one of the best tasting whites available- too bad they have some seeds. Disease pressure was easily managed.


Hope this info is helpful, even if I am not NW

 

[AlFulchino]

Thanks to both...all of it s very helpful in a cumulative way.


Rich, since you have a fair amount of experience w hybrids etc...what are your thoughts regarding the brix ranges in these grapes which are weighted in the 17-22 range, although there are exceptions which reach higher levels?


what are your thoughts on the impact it has on making a quality wine?

 

[grapeman]

Most of the hybrids come in at about 20 or higher. If you are looking at the chart in the Cornell bulletin, most of the ones listed were not harvested yet at those brix levels. When thy are harvested a bit low, you can add a bit of sugar to raise the brix up. Most of the low ones are whites and you don't want the alcohol levels as high in those anyways. If they are ripened thoroughly, the body is pretty good even though sugars may be a bit low. Vinifera growers might cringe at the mention of adding a bit of sugar, but it is accepted in northern grown grapes.


I guess it all comes down to personal prefeernces and methods.

 

[bruno]

Al, good advice, thanks. I'm ready with the sprayer, I purchased a 30-gallon spayer last year to kill the quack grass. Plus have attended some seminars on starting a vineyard which included a section on all the various pests, diseases, etc. As many problems as you can encounter, the experts claim it's not as bad as it sounds, as mother nature will take care of most of them herself, as long as sound growing principles are applied.