Another Sorbate Question

[Conan1]

I read this on Jack Keller's site "A few words of caution about potassium sorbate are in order. It does impart a taste to the wine, however slight, and you might want to avoid it if you intend to enter your wine in competition. Also, avoid sorbate if you intend to keep your wines a very long time. The "slight" taste tends to get stronger over time and after several years can be quite disappointing."
The recent wine I made has a SG of .996. It has sulfite in it but I will have to sweeten it for my wife. What will the long term effect on taste be if I keep 2 or 3 bottles of the sweetened wine (1.010 SG) for a year or two after adding the sorbate? How long can sweetened wine be safely kept?

 

[Wade E]

I have never tasted sorbate at the rate we use in our wine. As fas as how long it can be kept for there are just way too many factors that can make or break a wine when aging. Temps, stable temps, amount of tannins, proper S02 levels, PH, TA, type of cork, and the list goes on. I feel safe to say that most fruit wines are safe for around 3-5 years max. Another major factor I forgot to state that would really determine how long a wine would last is abv and thats a big 1!

 

[cpfan]

Jack Keller has a wonderful, informative site. As with everything on the internet, I don't think that everything on his site is correct. Personally, I have not noticed a sorbate taste in any of the wines that I have used sorbate in. I make kits, so the sorbate is precidely measured by the manufacturer. I have been drinking some Cheeky Monkey German Gewurztraminer recently (including last night). It was bottled in July 2009. I haven't noticed an unusual taste.

Steve

 

[ibglowin]

Sorbate is one of those mystery substances that some people can taste and others can't. I happen to fall into the can taste it, and it taste God awful......

I added it in to my first few batches of wine that were all fermented to dry. I could not detect it all that much in my Reds but my Whites wines went from tasting pretty darn good at bottling to tasting like bubble gum. The taste and smell did seem to go away (to my senses) at around 12 months from addition.

For that reason I don't use it unless I have a "flavour reserve" pouch that adds more sugar to the wine post fermentation.

 

[RoastedChestnut]

I'm not sure if i should post my sorbate related concerns here, but I do have questions about sorbate. I recently bought a kit 3 days ago it is a Fest Juice Pinot Noir 23L juice. I opened it up yesterday and noticed small sandwich pack of instructions and it includes K-meta, wine yeast and betonite. There is no sorbate in this kit, will I have to go buy some?

Also the instructions tell me to use betonite after 1st racking oppose to other kits I have, which told me to betonite the pimrary ferm.


Thanks so much!

 

[Brian]

Just my opinion.... but if it is a kit, it has been developed to turn out good. I would just follow the instructions and you should have no problems..

 

[ibglowin]

Sorbate is an option and sort of like an insurance policy. As long as the wine is fermented to dry, no other source of sugar is added and everything was sanitized properly you don't have to add it. It appears the kit manufacturer doesn't think it is necessary for this kit as well. Just make sure it goes to dry (0.998 or less)

 

[Wade E]

Pinot Noir is not a wine that is typically sweetened so sorbate isnt needed, its just added when you ferment dry and then want to sweeten as the sorbate will prevent the yeast from re fermentation.

 

[RoastedChestnut]

Oh okay! So I don't need sorbate for a pinot noir! To tell you the truth I haven't started drinking wine till I started these kits lol.

I stated my previous kit which was a concentrate + water, told me to put the betonite in 2L of water and stir, add juice, top up with water to achieve a 23L must, for primary. This gave me clear wine.

This is another question for a kit i'm planning to do this weekend, about the betonite should I put it in the primary or the secondary(carboy, as per festa juice instructions), I know it helps clear the wine, but What is the difference?

The reason I ask is, it is very hard to remove the clay after it settled in my primary, I am thinking it will be more difficult to remove clay from my carboy!

Also does it hurt not to add any betonite? I gues I would have to rack more If so How much k-meta is a campden tablet per gallon?

Thanks so much!

 

[Wade E]

I use it in primary with all of my wines to help with protein hazes and also to help drop out the heavy solids but it is also a gentler fining agent which can be used towards the end. Its good that it gets compact like you say as it makes it harder to disturb while racking it off. To loosen it up after your racking is complete just add some hot water and swish it around. If using campden tablets after fermentation then you could use 3.5 - 6 tablets per 6 gallon batch. If using powder then 1/4 tsp per 5 - 6 gallons.

 

[ibglowin]

Perhaps a silly question but just checking as I have never seen Bentonite clump int the Primary. You did pour your Bentonite into HOT water (first) and stir well until it was a slurry, then pour into Primary right?

The reason I ask is, it is very hard to remove the clay after it settled in my primary, I am thinking it will be more difficult to remove clay from my carboy!

 

[RoastedChestnut]

I use it in primary with all of my wines to help with protein hazes and also to help drop out the heavy solids but it is also a gentler fining agent which can be used towards the end. Its good that it gets compact like you say as it makes it harder to disturb while racking it off. To loosen it up after your racking is complete just add some hot water and swish it around. If using campden tablets after fermentation then you could use 3.5 - 6 tablets per 6 gallon batch. If using powder then 1/4 tsp per 5 - 6 gallons.

Ah, my other wine kit has a clear shellfish clearing agent, which was called chitosen or something, I bought a pack of super kleer and it was the same thing. Just in case!

Do I add the 1/4tsp per 6 gallon after I rack into clean carboy, Does this need any disolving with water or the wine in the clean carboy?

-edit- At what intervals do i need 1/4tsp per 6gallon for each month or 2months? Thanks -end edit-

Perhaps a silly question but just checking as I have never seen Bentonite clump int the Primary. You did pour your Bentonite into HOT water (first) and stir well until it was a slurry, then pour into Primary right?

It was warm water, but it fully dissolved! It was after I was to do my first racking into my secondary fermentation that I noticed the betonite was all clumped up in my primary pail. This was a concern for me for my carboy(2nd ferm).

Thanks