Aging in Carboy vs bottling

[tonyportale]

Hello,
I've been making wine for three years so I'm still considered a novice. I understand the reasoning for aging the wine in a carboy and adding KMeta every 3-4 months or so to keep the wine from spoiling. My question is what keeps the wine from spoiling after it is bottled? I"ve got some wine aging over a year now in bottles. There is no way to get KMeta in the bottles after they are corked. I'm sure there is a simple answer. I just don't have enough experience to know why.
Thank you,
Tony

 

[MalvinaScordaad]

Your first premise is wrong. Which makes you come up with the question. First you do not lose So2 in a Carboy so there is no need to add it every 3-4 months unless you rack the wine in it. Then you will lose some and you will want to add. Just prior to bottling you should add another dose as you will lose some in the process of bottling. As far as aging there are reasons to keep wine in a carboy but aging is not one of them. Settling of fine lees, degassing or loosing co2, oaking, blending, and racking are reasons to keep wine in a carboy but if those are not issues then the wine should be bottled. Wine ages quicker in smaller containers. So if that is your goal then get the wine out of the carboy and into bottles. All you are doing is wasting time keeping it in a carboy.
Malvina

 

[rjb222]

This is a question of oxygen quantity available. K-meta dissipates out through the surface of a wine even if you are topped up with a minimal of head space so you are correct that every 3-4 months add 1/4 tsp K-Meta. this is a general rule to follow unless you have a sulfite tester that is accurate so as you can keep your wine at about 50ppm. In a bottle the cork is a better seal than a airlock so you will not loose as much to the outside world as from a airlock a one way valve. With a proper cork micro oxidization is a good thing. The bulk aging will give you a uniform wine that is the same from bottle to bottle where as with bottling early your wine will vary a bit from bottle to bottle. Plus it is harder to test a carboy if you want to keep your head space up so your wine will have a better chance to last till it is properly aged

 

[MalvinaScordaad]

This is a question of oxygen quantity available. K-meta dissipates out through the surface of a wine even if you are topped up with a minimal of head space so you are correct that every 3-4 months add 1/4 tsp K-Meta. this is a general rule to follow unless you have a sulfite tester that is accurate so as you can keep your wine at about 50ppm. In a bottle the cork is a better seal than a airlock so you will not loose as much to the outside world as from a airlock a one way valve. With a proper cork micro oxidization is a good thing. The bulk aging will give you a uniform wine that is the same from bottle to bottle where as with bottling early your wine will vary a bit from bottle to bottle. Plus it is harder to test a carboy if you want to keep your head space up so your wine will have a better chance to last till it is properly aged

I have tested S02 in carboys with air locks and if you add 40ppm every 3 months you will be over 120 parts within a year. It is a myth that bulk aging in a carboy has any effect on uniformity. In fact the wine changes very little in a 5 gallon volume as opposed to a 750ml bottle. Carboy aging is a waste of time if you are finished doing anything to the wine in question.
Malvina

 

[thesnow]

I recently order a SC-300 for testing and don't have a clue what to do first. I have several, 6 gallon carboys that been ageing at 50-55F for 10 months now. What do you recommend I test? I also want to protect the wine before bottling what do you recommend for ppm CO2 40ppm , 50ppm. Second question ...when I filter my wine I filter into another carboy then I bottle; do I test my wine and adjust it on the last carboy which would be after filtering.

Thanks, I need to make more room for a new season batch of wine.

 

[MalvinaScordaad]

Great purchase. Now you have all you need to answer the question. First you need to know the ph of the wine. Then using a .8 mole calculation you can use the chart below or find a Calculator on line to determine the amount of Kmeta you need to add. Based on 5 gallons, For example if your PH is 3.5 you would need 40mg/liter Or expressed at 40 ppm which equals 1.31 grams or 1/4 teaspoon. You adjust what you have now and after filtering 24 hours prior to bottling you adjust again remembering to subtact what you already have from the total when you test the wine after filtering.


Wine pH Free SO2 Needed for
0.8 mg/L Molecular SO2
2.90 11 mg/L
3.00 13 mg/L
3.10 16 mg/L
3.20 21 mg/L
3.30 26 mg/L
3.40 32 mg/L
3.50 40 mg/L
3.60 50 mg/L
3.70 63 mg/L
3.80 79 mg/L
3.90 99 mg/L
4.00 125 mg/L

Malvina

 

[BobF]

When you test, using Mal's example, you may find you already have some amount in the wine. 40 is the total required. Subtract the amount measured from the 40 required to determine how much to add.

 

[andrewwon]

Some easy ways to keep wine from spoiling:
1.Keep it in the dark.
2.Store corked wine bottles on their sides
3.Keep the temperature constant
4.Don't move the wine
5.Keep the humidity at around 70%
6.Isolate the wine
7.Store for an appropriate amount of time.

 

[Runningwolf]

Your first premise is wrong. Which makes you come up with the question. First you do not lose So2 in a Carboy so there is no need to add it every 3-4 months unless you rack the wine in it. Then you will lose some and you will want to add. Just prior to bottling you should add another dose as you will lose some in the process of bottling. As far as aging there are reasons to keep wine in a carboy but aging is not one of them. Settling of fine lees, degassing or loosing co2, oaking, blending, and racking are reasons to keep wine in a carboy but if those are not issues then the wine should be bottled. Wine ages quicker in smaller containers. So if that is your goal then get the wine out of the carboy and into bottles. All you are doing is wasting time keeping it in a carboy.
Malvina

I totally agree with Malvina and very few of my wines are in carboys more then 6 months.

 

[BobF]

I almost agree

Free SO2 is what we're really concerned about having sufficient levels of. A large portion of the very first SO2 addition will be bound up in a relatively short time. Technically the SO2 isn't gone, but it's also not free.

As the various wine constituents that bind with SO2 get bound, less and less of the subsequent additions get bound this way.

IOW, even without racking, free SO2 can be low after a period of time sitting in a carboy.

 

[seth8530]

Im gona give my vote for aging in a carboy mainly due to the fact that larger volumes of liquid are less vulnerable to temperature spikes. which makes for better aging.

 

[Runningwolf]

Keep in mind Bob that I still rack several times after fermentation on which the wine is being tested and S02 added. I'm just not a believer in leaving my wine in a carboy for a year like others if not necessary. I know a lot of people do age for very long periods in carboys.

 

[bob1]

I dont have a filter so at about 4-6 months seems to me I end up with the carboy getting a good dusting. So if I bottled earlier it would have done this in the bottle. Earlier in wine making mine where like this at 6 months(bottles) bottling at 3 months. Other than looks the wine still tasted good.

 

[thesnow]

Sorry I still don't get it, once i use the sc-300. Which the video shows how to get your readings that's great I understand. But nothing explains step by step in plain English how to correct your Free SO2.
I never did this. I do like many I add 1/4 meta sulfite to a 23L carboy every six months.
What I understand is you need to get the pH reading ; if its 3.4 (30ppm) then you want to bring it up for red wine to 40ppm (or maybe 50 )(White wine higher) So your looking at adding 10ppm to get your goal of 40ppm. if this example is correct using the calculator online I need in put into my carboy .40 grams meta sulifite
Then wait 24 hrs and do the test again before bottling. So after waiting 24 hrs let's say i got 35ppm then I need to add more meta sulfite another .20 grams to reach my goal of 40ppm.
Is this some what correct??

 

[MalvinaScordaad]

I almost agree

Free SO2 is what we're really concerned about having sufficient levels of. A large portion of the very first SO2 addition will be bound up in a relatively short time. Technically the SO2 isn't gone, but it's also not free.

As the various wine constituents that bind with SO2 get bound, less and less of the subsequent additions get bound this way.

IOW, even without racking, free SO2 can be low after a period of time sitting in a carboy.

Not really. Free So2 is a result of a certain amount of Kmeta added at a certain pH. If the ph doesn't change and no o2 is introduced the Free So2 does not change by a large degree. However a somewhat larger initial dose can be productive. The idea that the free SO2 is going to disappear in a carboy unopened over time is not true.

 

[MalvinaScordaad]

Sorry I still don't get it, once i use the sc-300. Which the video shows how to get your readings that's great I understand. But nothing explains step by step in plain English how to correct your Free SO2.
I never did this. I do like many I add 1/4 meta sulfite to a 23L carboy every six months.
What I understand is you need to get the pH reading ; if its 3.4 (30ppm) then you want to bring it up for red wine to 40ppm (or maybe 50 )(White wine higher) So your looking at adding 10ppm to get your goal of 40ppm. if this example is correct using the calculator online I need in put into my carboy .40 grams meta sulifite
Then wait 24 hrs and do the test again before bottling. So after waiting 24 hrs let's say i got 35ppm then I need to add more meta sulfite another .20 grams to reach my goal of 40ppm.
Is this some what correct??

Hold on a minute. You are giving an example that if you have a ph of 3.4 in a wine you automatically have 30ppm of so2 NOT TRUE. You can have a wine with a ph of 3.4 and have 0 ppm of So2 it only means you need to add 30 ppm at 3.4 for the wine to be protected with enough So2. If you tested a wine with at ph of 3.4 and you find 10 ppm when you test then you need to add only 20 ppm to get to 30ppm. At 3.8 ph you need to have 79ppm. so for example you add 1/2 teaspoon to 5 gallons of achieve this if your test reads 0. Then after racking, filtering or both you test it again and you find that you have a reading of 50ppm you have lost 29ppm in the process. Now you have to add 29 ppm to reach again the desired goal of 79 ppm for a wine that has a ph of 3.8.
Malvina

 

[MalvinaScordaad]

Im gona give my vote for aging in a carboy mainly due to the fact that larger volumes of liquid are less vulnerable to temperature spikes. which makes for better aging.

Temperature changes age wine quicker. Better aging as you say is true but not faster.
http://www.preiserkey.com/node/1705

No wise cracks fellas
Malvina

 

[thesnow]

Ok, I was under the impression that a pH reading of 3.4 looking at a pH wine chart you had automatically a 30ppm. I need to test for the pH and also test for SO2. Question, what is the total SO2 solution used for?

 

[MalvinaScordaad]

Oh I think you are asking what is the total So2 test for. This test tells you how much So2 has been added. Keep in mind the Free So2 as in a wine with a PH of 3.8 needs 79 ppm of So2 to reach a level of So2 that is free and not bound. So2 that is bound in the wine does not protect the wine. The test for total So2 is testing the total amount added both free and bound. The upper limit of total SO2 allowed in wine in the US is 350 ppm but you never get that close. usually from 100 to 150 total is the case. That is another reason not to add to a carboy on a regular basis as very quickly your additions can add up.
Malvina

 

[thesnow]

I add the first sulifite 1/4 tsp five months ago to a 23L carboy. So I only need to know the free SO2.