RJ Spagnols Wine Kit- adding Pot Meta!?

[JOESILVA401]

I was instructed by my wine kit supplier and newly formed Mentor to ONLY add 1/3rd the recommended Pot Meta when it's time for this step in the kit. His rationale is that you don't need to and don't want to overpower the wine with sulphite. He recommends 1/3rd Tspn/Gal for additional racks throughout bulk aging. I weighed packet ad have since used only 1.7 grams during this step. Is this okay? Thanks!

 

[robie]

You are taking a sizable chance of your wine spoiling before you drink it. The amount of Kmeta (sulfite) included with the kit has been tested and considered thousands of times by true experts and should be considered what is necessary to protect your wine in a normal home-winery environment. They know how much can be added without over-dosing the wine.

Sulfite-free wine is likely your next point... (Actually there is no such thing as sulfite-free wine. Wine naturally has some level of sulfites.) Those wines are made in a very, very clean and specialized environment, so the addition of extra sulfites can be skipped. Such an environment is not usually found in one's own home winery.

Unless you have some sort of other medical issue with sulfites, I would not reduce the dosage.

If you don't take that advice, take this one - drink all the wine within six months of it clearing.

 

[Wade E]

If he is recommending 1/3rd tsp per gallon then you will actually be way over sulfited!! Its 1/4 tsp per 6 gallons when wine is done fermenting and then about 1/8th tsp per 6 gallon about every 4 months.

 

[JOESILVA401]

You guys are awesome with support, insight, and feedback. I'm so new to this wine making and decided if I was going to do it right, I might as well get after it 100%; so I'm very anxious about NOT screwing this investment up. I have a ton of wine going right now-- So just to clarify what I was told was to put 1/3rd of the packet (actually 1.7grams) of the Pot. Meta in during the Stabilizing/Clearing Step. After that step and during my LONG-TERM aging (not drinking this inside of 6 months!) I was instructed that on every subsequent rack (April 1st/ June 15th) to add 1/4 Tspn per 5gallons. So if I understand the replies correctly; I'm okay with under-sulphiting with 1/3rd the packet from the kit at the stabilize/clear step (as Wade E puts it- 1/4 tsp post ferm which actually 1.7grams is very close to that; as the packet seems to contain a full tsp); but now I must add 1/8th Tspn every 4 months...? Not to overwhelm this post but on the contrary if I used full packet from kit (full tspn post Ferm) can I skip the first 4 month 1/8tsp dose? Thanks again! Joe in Rhode Island... Newbie***

 

[cpfan]

Joe:

1) What is your new mentor's take on adding the sorbate that comes with the kit? The reason that I ask is that sorbate without sufficient K-meta may damage the wine.

2) You mention 5 gallons in your second post. Did the mentor recommend making the kit to 5 US gallons, or is that a typo?

Steve

 

[Rocky]

I got a real laugh at myself from this posting, Joe. When I read the subject, I thought it said "Wine kit - adding pot metal?" so I went to it thinking I have to see what kit called to add POT METAL?

Sometimes I wonder how I got this far.

 

[JOESILVA401]

He never mentioned any alterations to Sorbate during post fermentation but did say for racking during aging- use 1/8 Tspn per every gal! I started my 1st 3 kits using 6 gal carboys but recently switched over to 5 gals to avoid the more frequent need of topping off. For Pot Meta, he said use 1/3rd pack post primary fermentation, and add 1/4 Tsp/ per 5 gal on subsequent racks. I asked him when to rack once the kit process was complete in which case he said every couple months (2/22, 4/1, 6/15)..... Based on these dates I can still make modifications so ANY/ALL feedback is appreciated. I'm very green at this and have lots invested. Please provide insight and blueprint... For example I have a French Viogner that I stabilized (using only 1/3rd packet of Pot Meta) on 1/26/11, racked on 2/22/12 to clarify, and re-racked just last week on 3/10/12. I've added no additional amounts of Pot Meta or Sorbate to this since clarifying on 1/26/11... THANKS!

 

[Rocky]

Joe, be careful not to add too much K meta. If you are racking every two months, adding 1/4 t each time would, in my opinion, be too much. On a kit, I normally add 1/4 teaspoon at the stabilizing step and, if I bulk age in carboys, add another 1/4 t every 3 or 4 months there after. The best way is to get a test kit and test for free SO2.

 

[tjbryner]

I got a real laugh at myself from this posting, Joe. When I read the subject, I thought it said "Wine kit - adding pot metal?" so I went to it thinking I have to see what kit called to add POT METAL?

Sometimes I wonder how I got this far.

X2
I did the same thing......

 

[JOESILVA401]

Rocky-thanks! What about the Sorbate? Are you adding any and if so what amounts each time you rack when bulk aging? Thanks Again...

 

[cpfan]

Rocky-thanks! What about the Sorbate? Are you adding any and if so what amounts each time you rack when bulk aging? Thanks Again...

You only add sorbate once.

Steve

 

[Dugger]

Joe - a couple of things.
With kits you really don't need to rack that much; once you have stabilized and the wine has cleared, you can rack off the sediment. If you are bulk aging for awhile then you really don't have to rack again until you are ready to bottle. Racking too often can lead to oxidation, especially with white wines. As mentioned by others, you should add the whole packet of sulphite when you stabilize and then, at some point before you bottle, add another 1/4 tsp, assuming you will be keeping the wine for more than 6 months, as probably mentioned in your instructions.
Also, making your wine to less than the recommended 6 US gal is not a good practice, especially if you are making premium kits, since it upsets the balance of the wine, and may not allow it to reach its full potential. A better practice, would be to make it to the 6 gal and then rack to your 5 gal after stabilization and put the remainder in smaller bottles ( gal, 1/2 gal, reg bottles, etc.). Also, check out threads on topping up to find out how others are dealing with this and keep your eye out for used mexican carboys also as these are closer to 6 gal.
Good luck.

 

[JOESILVA401]

@ Dugger: I racked 2 wines from primary buckets to carboys over the weekend. 1 (super Tuscan) to a 6 gal and 2 (Spanish Rioja) to a 5gal; despite kit instructions and your insight regarding 6 gal only. As a reminder my mentor's suggestion to a 5 gal was so less 3rd party wine for topping off would be required. I've uploaded a pic of the 5 gal carboy (Spanish Rioja) where starting SG was 1.100 and is now .0990. Is there anything that stands out for correction? Thanks!

 

[JOESILVA401]

6 gallon carboy w/ Super Tuscan

 

[Flame145]

6 gallon carboy w/ Super Tuscan

View attachment 3741

IMO that should be filled to the neck of carboy. Too much head space / air.

 

[JOESILVA401]

It will get "topped off" after it's stabilized; as it will only be like this for one week/ 2ndary ferm. The point I'm making is that 5 gals carboys require less outside wine when topping off compared to the 6gal per instructions. See how much more wine will be needed for topping up on my Super Tuscan in comparison to the Rioja in the 5gal?

 

[cpfan]

It will get "topped off" after it's stabilized; as it will only be like this for one week/ 2ndary ferm. The point I'm making is that 5 gals carboys require less outside wine when topping off compared to the 6gal per instructions. See how much more wine will be needed for topping up on my Super Tuscan in comparison to the Rioja in the 5gal?

Personally I am confused. You are making two standard kits. These are 6 US gallons (or 23 litres or 5 Imperial gallons) of volume. I suspect that the kit should be overflowing the 5 US gallon carboy, and somewhat higher on the 6 US gallon carboy.

I already asked if your mention of 5 gallons was a typo. Did you make these kits to 5 US gallons or 6 US gallons? From your pictures the answer is five. You appear to be creating your own problem.

Steve

 

[JOESILVA401]

I used a US 5gal for the Spanish Rioja and you can see how much room is in carboy. I used US6gal for the Super Tuscan. One thing should be noted here--- I DO NOT FILL PRIMARY BUCKET TO 6 Gal MARK! I only fill enough to get my SG where I need it to be. I made the mistake of following kit instructions on one of my 1st kits of Old Vine Zine as it was way to watered down and SG plummeted when I filled primary bucket to 6 gal mark. Not sure how "I'm vpcreating my own problem" if I'm sticking to the science in numbers....

 

[Deezil]

One thing should be noted here--- I DO NOT FILL PRIMARY BUCKET TO 6 Gal MARK! I only fill enough to get my SG where I need it to be.

This works fine with wines made from scratch. Not so much with kits.. Elaborating below.

Not sure how "I'm creating my own problem" if I'm sticking to the science in numbers....

The first quote, is how. Kits are designed to be made at the quantity specified - SG/acid/tannins/flavor should all come into balance when you reach the particular volume. The facets of the wine are balanced at this point.

The reasoning for your first kit being watered down & thin, might just be due to the quality of the kit and not your winemaking practices.

If you only add enough water to get the alcohol where *you* want it, then you're not adding in complications due to the other facets - acid/tannins/flavor. You'd be better off filling to the volume the kit is designed for, then adding a sugar source to get the SG where you want it - this way you get the alcohol where you want it, but dont neglect the rest of the wine

 

[Runningwolf]

If you only add enough water to get the alcohol where *you* want it, then you're not adding in complications due to the other facets - acid/tannins/flavor. You'd be better off filling to the volume the kit is designed for, then adding a sugar source to get the SG where you want it - this way you get the alcohol where you want it, but dont neglect the rest of the wine

In addition to what Manley posted another reason in some cases for not getting a good sg reading is from not stirring all of the components real good. I was guilty of this.