When to say when...when pressing.

[jsbeckton]

So I’m on about my 5th press and I know that you are supposed to keep tasting for a harsher bitterness as the cue to stop but not sure I have the palate to pick that up.

Is it really subtle or am I just not pressing enough? I typically make 3 lug batches and average about 6-7 gal free pour and 1 gal pressed wine.

Using a basket press and just press once (no mixing and repress)

Thanks for any thought

 

[Rice_Guy]

When I am pressing I do overkill and I know it. At a certain point yeah I might get another quart of juice out but it really isn’t worth the time, ,,, yup I do it anyway.
The commercial folks that I know have to be practical and they will press roughly 45 minutes to an hour (hydro press). They have electronic controls that mimic mixing and pulse/ release like we can do with out “free time” basket press.
Bitterness, my guess is you are not pressing hard enough to get it. My guess is if you chew seeds you would finally identify it, ,,' so the guidance is be practical with your time.

 

[winemaker81]

@jsbeckton, I suspect you're leaving a gallon or two of wine behind.

Last year was my first time using fresh grapes in 20 years, so I re-learned a few things. The first run wines I pressed light to medium, and made a second run from the pomace, adding 15 gallons of water to the pomace from 540 lbs grapes.

I pressed 15+ gallons of 2nd wine from the pomace, which went into a barrel. Then I pressed hard, producing another 7 or 8 gallons. I kept this segregated. It was more strongly flavored and definitely harsher than the lightly pressed 2nd run.

By last spring, the hard press had changed dramatically, softened and lost the harshness. I used it to top up other containers (including the 1st runs), and bottled a carboy in August. Side-by-side, the light press 2nd run (spent 10 months in a barrel with 6 oz Hungarian oak) and the hard press 2nd run (no oak) are completely different wines. I'm surprisingly pleased with both.

My recommendation: press your wine are hard as you feel comfortable with. Then use a different bucket and hard press the remainder. Keep the hard press separate and evaluate it over the winter and spring.

If it's not good? You've wasted a bit of time, but have increased your knowledge, IMO a good trade. If it's good? You have a few more bottles. Also, if you like the hard press, experiment with blending it with the light press. The hard press wine's heavier body may make an improvement overall.

 

[Ignoble Grape]

Essentially it really doesn't matter for home winemakers. We don't have the industrial equipment that will press hard enough where we get those heavy tannic extractions that it makes a huge difference. I agree with @Rice_Guy , you get to a point where you're just not wanting to spend another 45 min. waiting... to... get...every...drop. I did an experiment yesterday and left the bladder press going for probably an extra 1.5 hours and got a total of **maybe** 3/4 of a gallon of wine?? Worth it? I donno...

@winemaker81 - Every year I have really good intentions of separating out free/press juice, but sometime between September and bottling time I inevitably end up losing track of what carboy is what or using 1 to top off the other. The good news? I get to try again next year! It's good to have a goal.

 

[winemaker81]

@Ignoble Grape, I label everything using paper, string, and scotch tape. It's the only way I can keep track of things. I learned this the hard way ...

At this time I have:

• 2 kits (Cabernet Sauvignon, Chardonnay)
• Sauvignon Blanc
• free run blend of Merlot & a Vinifera blend
• pressed wine blend of Merlot, Zinfandel, and Vinifera blend
• 2nd run blend of Merlot, Zinfandel, & Vinifera blend
• reserved 1+ gallons each of 2 Merlot, .Zinfandel, and Vinifera blend

Yes, I'm extremely proficient in complicating things!

 

[Johnd]

Guess I'm in the "hard press, get every drop you can" category. I use a ratchet type basket press and press until I can't turn the press any more. I then knock the cake out of the basket and into a round plastic bin, fluff the cake to break up all of the compressed skins, and put it back in for a second pressing, you'd be very surprised to see how much more wine you'll get second time around. If I'm feeling energetic, I'll sometimes do another fluff / press............

 

[Ajmassa]

Guess I'm in the "hard press, get every drop you can" category. I use a ratchet type basket press and press until I can't turn the press any more. I then knock the cake out of the basket and into a round plastic bin, fluff the cake to break up all of the compressed skins, and put it back in for a second pressing, you'd be very surprised to see how much more wine you'll get second time around. If I'm feeling energetic, I'll sometimes do another fluff / press............

I’m with ya. I’ve attempted to fluff it up before but it’s not exactly easy to do. My previous attempts weren’t done very well but this year I got a fire pit poker and it worked great. Left the basket in tact and worked thru the cake. I was pressed dry beginning with a full #35 basket, did a proper fluff and got another 3 gal.
Then i let it sit it overnight too with a bucket in place. Woke up to another gallon and then easily pressed out yet another for 5 extra gal in total from the fluff.
I don’t separate intentionally but sometimes it works out that way. I haven’t really noticed much difference from free to press except right after pressing. The later pressed wine is smoother. I think that’s from extra aeration tho. Not from the pressing.

correction - initial press 6 gal
2nd press 3 gal

 

[winemaker81]

Taking the cake off typically makes a mess, although the harder I press, the easier it is. I purchased a 5 tine pitchfork for stirring my compost bin ... but no matter how well I clean it, I am NOT putting that in my wine! Growing up on a small dairy farm, we call these "manure" forks for what should be an obvious reason.

However, for next fall I may buy another (or similar implement) specifically for pressing, and go @Ajmassa's route, fluffing in place.

 

[Ignoble Grape]

@Ignoble Grape, I label everything using paper, string, and scotch tape. It's the only way I can keep track of things. I learned this the hard way ...

At this time I have:

• 2 kits (Cabernet Sauvignon, Chardonnay)
• Sauvignon Blanc
• free run blend of Merlot & a Vinifera blend
• pressed wine blend of Merlot, Zinfandel, and Vinifera blend
• 2nd run blend of Merlot, Zinfandel, & Vinifera blend
• reserved 1+ gallons each of 2 Merlot, .Zinfandel, and Vinifera blend

Yes, I'm extremely proficient in complicating things!

View attachment 67794

Love it! My strategy this year was a glass pen. Will see how it goes...

 

[Ignoble Grape]

Guess I'm in the "hard press, get every drop you can" category. I use a ratchet type basket press and press until I can't turn the press any more. I then knock the cake out of the basket and into a round plastic bin, fluff the cake to break up all of the compressed skins, and put it back in for a second pressing, you'd be very surprised to see how much more wine you'll get second time around. If I'm feeling energetic, I'll sometimes do another fluff / press............

Way to go! Upper body strength! Who neeeds a gym membership, right??

So I did take my pomace and started a 6-gallon batch of piquette yesterday. I figured it's a covid kind of experiment. If it works out, I might try different styles of piquette next year and definitely won't be stressing the hard-press runs.

 

[jsbeckton]

Great feedback that everyone seems to be pressing as hard as they please without a negative impact. I guess the Morewine manual had me concerned that this was a potential error trap so I was a bit apprehensive about it.

Next batch I’m going to press as usual, swap buckets and then press the crap out of it but keep that separate, at least initially. If that works out it will greatly improve my net take.
Another area where I may also be too conservative is first racking off gross lees. Last time I had 8 gallons after the press but lost almost a gallon as I stopped my racking when I reached the “muck” at the bottom. I tried putting this gallon in the fridge for another day or so to see if it would separate further but this only got me maybe another quart or less.

Is losing over 10% at first racking too much? For reference I typically wait about 3 days for it to settle before racking off the gross lees.

 

[Ajmassa]

Is losing over 10% at first racking too much? For reference I typically wait about 3 days for it to settle before racking off the gross lees.

Probably depends on how dirty the press was. I normally keep my press wine relatively free of any solids, going thru 2 strainers as it fills the bucket. Few days then rack. Way less than 10% loss. Recently had a press of super thick stuff and tons of solids made it through. Heaviest gross lees I’ve had. It was maybe 1.5gal out of 14gal demi. So about 10%. 10% routinely does sound high but not if a lot of stuff makes it thru I guess.
And the fridge trick can keep compressing for a few days I noticed.

 

[jsbeckton]

I tried a strainer but it must be too fine because it completely plugged after just about 1/2 gal of free pour so I swapped it with a less fine strainer. This second strainer got all the seeds/skins that made it through but not much else. Wish I could find something in the middle. Anyone have a strainer recommendation?

 

[NorCal]

I’ve kept my free run pressing cuts separate. I’ve always intended to make my prime wine with the free run and the lower quality bottling be the pressed wine. Every time though (we’ll see again this year) I taste the free run wine, the pressed wine and a weighted blend of the two. I have always liked the blend of the free and pressed the best.

 

[winemaker81]

For reference I typically wait about 3 days for it to settle before racking off the gross lees.

If you give it a few more days, the lees will compact more. I estimate I lost 5% volume to lees.

I normally keep my press wine relatively free of any solids, going thru 2 strainers as it fills the bucket.

I used to line the press with cheesecloth, but it's PITA. This year I skipped the cheesecloth and stretched a large nylon mesh bag over a 8 gallon primary that I used to capture the wine. After pressing 16 lugs, there was about 2 lbs of seeds and stray pulp trapped in the bag.

Next year I may try pouring the wine through a finer bag before putting into the carboy.

I have always liked the blend of the free and pressed the best.

That makes sense. The free run is cleaner and lacks the harshness, but also has less body. The pressings provide the extra body and flavor, so a judicious mix reaches the middle ground.