Other Tweeking Cheap Kits

[Morten]

Oak can be added during fermentation, and during aging.

Is it wise to add it be added both at fermenting AND aging?

 

[winemaker81]

Is it wise to add it be added both at fermenting AND aging?

Yes -- both have completely different purposes and effects.

 

[joeswine]

learning how to use and make extracts, or even better-using vanilla beans is fun and very tasty, another tool in your tool wine box, for sure as well as cinnamon and others to enhance your products.

 

[She’sgonnakillme]

I used 1/2 Madagascar vanilla bean to a Cab recently and boy was that a mistake!! Way too overpowering

 

[joeswine]

Less is more. It all comes with experience, nothing more.

 

[winemaker81]

I used 1/2 Madagascar vanilla bean to a Cab recently and boy was that a mistake!! Way too overpowering

Reserve the wine for blending and topping barrels. A bottle or 2 of that in 23 liters may be just right.

 

[AR324]

Joe, I understand that adding an fpack in the primary adds body etc. Also, adding an fpack to the secondary will add flavor. How do you prepare the fpac for the secondary if you want to add a hint of blackberry or blue. Same as the primary or something different?

thanks for any input.

 

[joeswine]

Joe, I understand that adding an fpack in the primary adds body etc. Also, adding an fpack to the secondary will add flavor. How do you prepare the fpac for the secondary if you want to add a hint of blackberry or blue. Same as the primary or something different?

thanks for any input.

There is no difference where you add the fpac the difference is in the effect in the primary the fpac becomes a Partnership with the overall taste of the wine, in the secondary that same F pack becomes a background flavor because the primary has already been established, got it.
Partnership, primary
Background, secondary

 

[AR324]

There is no difference where you add the fpac the difference is in the effect in the primary the fpac becomes a Partnership with the overall taste of the wine, in the secondary that same F pack becomes a background flavor because the primary has already been established, got it.
Partnership, primary
Background, secondary

Thanks for clearing that up for me.

 

[joeswine]

Thanks for clearing that up for me.

If you think about all the taste opportunities to your taste buds?

 

[Bmd2k1]

There is no difference where you add the fpac the difference is in the effect in the primary the fpac becomes a Partnership with the overall taste of the wine, in the secondary that same F pack becomes a background flavor because the primary has already been established, got it.
Partnership, primary
Background, secondary

When sauteing fruit for an fpac...wondering:

1) stove top temp med or low?
2) typically how long ?
3) anything added to the fruit or just all/only fruit?
4) let it cool completely before tossing in must?

Cheers & thanks for the tips!

 

[Vlabruz]

I just started a WE pinot grigio reserve. Its already ferment for a few days. Anything tried and true I can quickly do to improve it or just run with it and play next time?

 

[joeswine]

When sauteing fruit for an fpac...wondering:

1) stove top temp med or low?
2) typically how long ?
3) anything added to the fruit or just all/only fruit?
4) let it cool completely before tossing in must?

Cheers & thanks for the tips!
[

 

[joeswine]

In a saucepan add 2 cup of the wines bas
Med heat until the fruit is softened ,about 16 ozs.a little more is ok , not less.
Once this process is completed add it to the fermentation process.

Do you use a tub? Is so just dump it directly in to the mix.

 

[Bmd2k1]

In a saucepan add 2 cup of the wines bas
Med heat until the fruit is softened ,about 16 ozs.a little more is ok , not less.
Once this process is completed add it to the fermentation process.

Do you use a tub? Is so just dump it directly in to the mix.

Thanks Joe! I ferment in 30L Speidels.

 

[Morten]

Yes -- both have completely different purposes and effects.

How much would you say for a 22-23 litre batch? During ferment and after.

 

[winemaker81]

How much would you say for a 22-23 litre batch? During ferment and after.

There is no clear cut answer, as it depends on the wine, the oak, and your taste.

Fermentation Oak: the shredded, toasted oak I use calls for 1 to 1-1/2 cups per 23 liters of white, 2 to 3 cups for red. If I was making Chardonnay, I'd probably go with 1-1/2 cups, Sauvignon Blanc 1 cup, anything else (if I used oak), maybe 1/2 cup.

Reds? For heavier reds, 3+ cups. Fall 2020 I made four 144 lb batches (4x 36 lb lugs), and had about 3/4 cup left over in each lb of shredded oak, so I just tossed it in, and it turned out fine. These were all heavy reds, and while I got some oak taste, it was not much. [Each batch produced ~two 23 liter carboys.]

Chips have less surface area, but I'd use the above amounts.

Aging Oak: For staves, spirals, and @Mike - Next Level Oak's oak stix, I'd go with one for 3 to 4 months for reds. For whites, I'd be taste testing every 2 to 3 weeks. If it's not enough oak for the wine/your taste, swap in another.

For cubes, 1/2 to 2 oz per 23 liters. Go light for whites and taste test, as it's really easy to over-oak a white. My b-in-l left a Chardonnay on oak chips for too long -- at the 5 year mark the wine tasted pretty much like the bar we were sitting at. It was undrinkable.

Cubes in reds? As mentioned, I put 'em in and leave 'em in until I rack. I prefer oak as a seasoning, not a flavoring. For a really heavy red, 2 oz max. I'm currently doing 1-1/2 oz per 23 liters as it produces the flavor I want. Everyone is different, so it's a judgment call.

Chips have more surface area than cubes, so I'd go 1/2 oz less on all measurements. Keep in mind that it's far easier to add more than it is to take some out.

For my 2020 red blends, I added 5 oz cubes to 54 liter neutral barrels, and the cubes remained in the barrels for 11 months. Once the cubes are expended, it doesn't make any significant difference. The 2021 reds (FWK triple batches) came with 1-1/2 oz oak cubes each, so I'm going with 4-1/2 oz per barrel.

Note that these barrels are neutral, over 10 years old (construction date is 2010), and all oak character is long past used up. They provide a concentration effect as about 10% evaporates through the wood each year.

 

[joeswine]

For cheaper wine kits oakimg for a month or two (reds) is enough the entent is to drink them younger than a higher priced kit.
Remember this thread is a bout having fun with your wine as well as making a decent table wine , Rocket science doesn’t work here.

 

[winemaker81]

For cheaper wine kits oakimg for a month or two (reds) is enough the entent is to drink them younger than a higher priced kit.
Remember this thread is a bout having fun with your wine as well as making a decent table wine , Rocket science doesn’t work here.

Good point -- it also matters what style you're making. If making a quicker drinker, no/little oak and no skin packs or other additions that make the wine heavier. The more "oomph" to the wine, the longer it needs to age.

OTOH, this thread illustrates that a $50 USD Cabernet kit can certainly be transformed into a heavy duty contender!

 

[joeswine]

I think Tweaking cheap wine kits have shown over the course of years how to enhance cheap wine kits I have made the most popular ones and not for myself but for others, cheap kits all have
one thing in common is very little structure, we have shown this time and time again here on this thread the largest of its type.
These were designed to be quickly made no fuss early drinking wines and nothing more, we have found by building the structure with the wines base charisticaries you can build a better structure but as far as longevity they were never going to be great, just good everyday wine.
If you never made one of these kits or a half dozen, then you would understand the inner workings of a cheap kit.
there are 147 pages and 467k views, not counting making FPAC or using Extracts.