Thoughts on California wine

[balatonwine]

even his Pinot noir tasted like every other Pinot.

Born and raised in CA, but has been 20 years since I visited a CA winery. But even then I noted they were all starting to converge on trying for 100 points dictated, then, by mostly one person **cough cough** Robert Parker, Jr. **cough cough**. Maybe things have simply gotten worse? I don't know.

I actually grow Pinot Noir, but that is another story.

As a Sideways comment I also actually like Merlot.

Plus they all cost $28-50 or more. Tonight I found a winery that sell s his wine for $10.99 and it tastes like all the other expensive wines.

Pretentiousness is a defining factor in the wine industry in places like CA. Of course you can buy a $10.99 bottle of wine of similar quality elsewhere. But you then do not get the bragging rights of swirling a glass of wine from Chateau Saint Coemgen** to impress all your friends.

** A obtuse, inside, private joke.

 

[wood1954]

You just have to pick the right spot. The Los Carneros AVA spans parts of Napa and Sonoma and sits next to San Pablo Bay and is perfect for growing Pinot with its cooler climate and fog filled mornings.

https://napavintners.com/napa_valley/los-carneros-ava/
We are members at Tolosa which is located in SLO (Edna Valley) and they source grapes from many vineyards in the region including Los Carneros. At a tasting a couple years ago they opened a bottle of the 2016 from that AVA and poured it for our group. It was an out of body experience and needless to say we bought a 3 pack right then and there.

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That’s what was hoping for. I was very disappointed that I didn’t find one wine that was really really good.

 

[wood1954]

Born and raised in CA, but has been 20 years since I visited a CA winery. But even then I noted they were all starting to converge on trying for 100 points dictated, then, by mostly one person **cough cough** Robert Parker, Jr. **cough cough**. Maybe things have simply gotten worse? I don't know.

I actually grow Pinot Noir, but that is another story.

As a Sideways comment I also actually like Merlot.


Pretentiousness is a defining factor in the wine industry in places like CA. Of course you can buy a $10.99 bottle of wine of similar quality elsewhere. But you then do not get the bragging rights of swirling a glass of wine from Chateau Saint Coemgen** to impress all your friends.

** A obtuse, inside, private joke.

Very pretentious and they don’t know how to sell wine very well. If I was going to sell wine i would offer at least some water and crackers, offering some cheese between sips would also help. If you sit down and taste a flight with nothing to clean your tongue and nothing to compare how the wine might taste with food the wines all just taste harsh . I think if done right a little cheese and crackers would sell more and pay for itself. Then again maybe Calaveras county just isn’t a good region for wine.

 

[Snafflebit]

You would have to search hard for a tasting room that provides cheese between sips. Crackers are a maybe, but not all that common. It is like a bar, keep the fruit behind the counter or the customers will start making a meal!

 

[ibglowin]

I have been to many a tasting room all over the West Coast from Washington to Oregon and California from Napa south to Paso and even Temecula. Probably can count on one hand the wineries that had breadsticks or nuts or crackers on hand for their guest. We just bring our own small box of the tiny dry breadsticks on our trip with us and keep them discreetly hidden. Some wineries will freak out if you bring in any "food" saying its against the law so we stay discreet and don't have a problem.

 

[Jusatele]

I stopped into a vineyard this weekend and was shocked they had spittoons on the tables. Most places it seems now are set up to have reservations made, ask for a glass of water to clean your wine glass and they seem to think you are asking to much. They think if you spit out the wine you do not like it.
In other words they are selling young wines at inflated prices to a clientele that has little knowledge.
My wife and I stop off at vineyards a couple times a month. Living close to Willamette valley we have a plethora of vineyards and more opening each year. Some have very professional staff and are great to go to. But most are businesses that are capitalizing on the fact that most people stopping in have no idea of how to judge a wine. That is why a 40 dollar bottle of wine at most vineyards is no better than a 12 dollar bottle at a liquor store.

 

[ibglowin]

You would have to search hard for a tasting room that provides cheese between sips. Crackers are a maybe, but not all that common. It is like a bar, keep the fruit behind the counter or the customers will start making a meal!

We've noticed over the years more and more wineries in Paso are offering up charcuterie boards for purchase for customers who are tasting or for members who visit and buy a bottle or glass pours for the patio and want something to go with it. They are usually pre-made by someone who does this as a side gig and then refrigerated and pulled out as needed. They range from small ones for ~$20 up to the Mezze Platter from Daou for ~$65 that will feed a party of 4!

 

[balatonwine]

I stopped into a vineyard this weekend and was shocked they had spittoons on the tables.

Interesting

Again, it has been two decades since I have been to a CA winery for tasting. But then, most every one that I remember had a "spit bucket". The idea was to taste the wine, not consume it. Water was also there free to drink to clear the palate. Since I was driving, by car, the "spit bucket" let me visit many wineries without becoming inebriated. Which to was sensible and good for all concerned -- me, the winery and others on the road.

Sad if this basic concept of do not drink and drive is absent today from wineries.....

 

[wood1954]

I think a lot of wine tasting rooms don’t really care if you buy a bottle or not. A half oz or one oz pour per glass at $ 20-40 per flight yields around $100 per bottle. It’s really hard to get drunk doing flights of such small samples. I’ve always believed you have to swallow some of the sample to see how it feels and tastes in the back of your mouth. However I don’t like drinking to excess when out and about.

 

[balatonwine]

A half oz or one oz pour per glass at $ 20-40 per flight yields around $100 per bottle. It’s really hard to get drunk doing flights of such small samples.

I do seem to be out of touch if that is now the norm in CA Wineries. Back in the day when I frequented Napa, Sonoma, Mendocino wineries (I lived in Humboldt then in Sacramento for years), the ones charging for a tasting were the exception. I only paid to sample wine at Sterling. Most others were free. And they sure poured a lot into a glass back then. I would visit about 10-15 wineries a day. And if the wine was good, I would buy.

 

[balatonwine]

I’ve always believed you have to swallow some of the sample to see how it feels and tastes in the back of your mouth.

For me, if it is wrong on the palate, no need to swallow it. It won't make me like the wine more. And you can get a decent full mouth feel without having to swallow (sucking air in over the wine, as just one example, will do similar).

 

[VinesnBines]

Interesting

Again, it has been two decades since I have been to a CA winery for tasting. But then, most every one that I remember had a "spit bucket". The idea was to taste the wine, not consume it. Water was also there free to drink to clear the palate. Since I was driving, by car, the "spit bucket" let me visit many wineries without becoming inebriated. Which to was sensible and good for all concerned -- me, the winery and others on the road.

Sad if this basic concept of do not drink and drive is absent today from wineries.....

Pre-pandemic, tastings were the norm. Once the wineries reopened, the guided tastings were replaced with flights - two to four ounce glasses and a self guided tasting. Now it seems flights are in and wine by the glass or bottle are the norm. It seems most people go to the winery to drink, not so much to taste. A lot of wineries are just party bars, especially in the summer.

Wine festivals were always drunk fests. I see they are making a comeback and I expect the festival is still or even more the one price drunk fest.

I have learned to taste and spit. Makes me healthier and happier.

 

[BarrelMonkey]

I think a lot of wine tasting rooms don’t really care if you buy a bottle or not. A half oz or one oz pour per glass at $ 20-40 per flight yields around $100 per bottle.

A lot depends on the scale of the operation. If you're a small winery and/or a bit off the beaten track, you might easily be opening, say, $300-$400 worth of wine (retail price) any time a guest shows up. Those bottles don't last forever... more than a couple of days and your guests aren't getting the best representation of your wine so unless you had enough guests over that period to empty the bottle, the remains are going to waste. (Note exactly true; it probably either goes home with the tasting room staff or gets used for topping in the cellar, but it isn't contributing to the bottom line). Hopefully the tasting room provides a good customer experience and improves awareness and appreciation of your brand, but (with the possible exception of some highly popular and high end destinations in, say, Napa) I'm not sure that tasting room fees alone do much for the bottom line.

I’ve always believed you have to swallow some of the sample to see how it feels and tastes in the back of your mouth.

For me, if it is wrong on the palate, no need to swallow it. It won't make me like the wine more. And you can get a decent full mouth feel without having to swallow (sucking air in over the wine, as just one example, will do similar).

I somewhat agree with you both... if there's a clear flaw on first impression, no need to swallow it to see if it gets better. But I agree with @wood1954 that some of it has to go down the gullet in order to get the full sensory impression.

 

[ChuckD]

(sucking air in over the wine, as just one example, will do similar).

I swear I keep trying this at home but most of the time it results in me drooling wine down my shirt or spitting it all over the room! I’ll just drink it than you

 

[winemaker81]

Pre-pandemic, tastings were the norm. Once the wineries reopened, the guided tastings were replaced with flights - two to four ounce glasses and a self guided tasting. Now it seems flights are in and wine by the glass or bottle are the norm. It seems most people go to the winery to drink, not so much to taste. A lot of wineries are just party bars, especially in the summer.

Mrs. WM81 and I toured a couple of wineries in the Boone NC area last month. Both had live music, which we attended at the second winery. Sales were flights and full glasses. The flights were the closest thing to a tasting.

From a labor cost POV, flights are a lot more efficient. Both wineries had several people who simply built flights, e.g. a vertical rack that is easy to arrange the wines in order, and easy to carry. Customers could choose from a selection of flights (no choosing individual wines), and the workers poured the necessary wines.

 

[Snafflebit]

^ I have seen “wine trees” like this popping up at a few of the large wineries around here, with a paper describing each wine. And some wineries have a tasting bar for members only. Add a charcuterie board and the affair turns into a picnic. The wineries are almost like destinations now, and you can get married in them too. That seems to be what the people expect here. Wine Disneyland!

 

[VinesnBines]

^ I have seen “wine trees” like this popping up at a few of the large wineries around here, with a paper describing each wine. And some wineries have a tasting bar for members only. Add a charcuterie board and the affair turns into a picnic. The wineries are almost like destinations now, and you can get married in them too. That seems to be what the people expect here. Wine Disneyland!

Six Flags over Dionysus.

 

[ChuckD]

The wineries are almost like destinations now

Almost? All of the wineries around here are already entertainment venues or heading that way. (Music, food, flights, event hosting…)

 

[ibglowin]

I stopped into a vineyard this weekend and was shocked they had spittoons on the tables. Most places it seems now are set up to have reservations made, ask for a glass of water to clean your wine glass and they seem to think you are asking to much. They think if you spit out the wine you do not like it.
In other words they are selling young wines at inflated prices to a clientele that has little knowledge.
My wife and I stop off at vineyards a couple times a month. Living close to Willamette valley we have a plethora of vineyards and more opening each year. Some have very professional staff and are great to go to. But most are businesses that are capitalizing on the fact that most people stopping in have no idea of how to judge a wine. That is why a 40 dollar bottle of wine at most vineyards is no better than a 12 dollar bottle at a liquor store.

Just spent 3 wonderful days here in Paso Robles, CA. Happy to report we were 6 for 6 in Spit Buckets at all our tasting tables!

 

[wood1954]

Just spent 3 wonderful days here in Paso Robles, CA. Happy to report we were 6 for 6 in Spit Buckets at all our tasting tables!

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Nice,e how was the wine? Anything really standout
.