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mendozer

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I'm getting ready to bottle and one of my reds had a TA of 6.3 (measured with pH method)

So I used Fermcalc to find out to add 10.5 grams of KCO3 to my 5.5 gallons to bring it down to 5.2 g/L of TA.

I also sulfited it, then racked into bottling bucket. Tested a bit just for the hell of it, still 6.3! I also noted that my pH was 3.73 before then 3.88 after the addition.

Does it take time to adjust or something?
 

salcoco

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It seems to me that you should have been adding acid not trying to reduce it. with regards to addition of pot carbonate the solution was buffered enough not to make the change. I would perform bench trials with the idea of adding acid to get the taste to your desire not just numbers.
 

Johnd

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I tend to agree with @salcoco. A red with a TA of 6.3 and pH of 3.73 would be in the ballpark for me. Unless there was a taste problem, it would seem that the only move might have been to lower the pH a smidge.

Has this wine been through MLF already? What kind of wine is it?
 

stickman

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When lowering TA using a potassium salt, you have to chill the wine to precipitate potassium bitartrate to see the full effect. If you bottle right away, the tartrates will drop out in the bottle over time.
 

mendozer

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It's as 50/50 sangio/barbera blend.

I don't understand the comment about acidifying. If my TA is high, I need to deacidify it. It's not like pH where lower is stronger.

johnd, It tasted fine, just wanted to abide by the rules, so to speak. Yes it had done MLF back in March.

stickman, I didn't know about the chilling, good to know. They don't mention that on the package haha!

Well, I was impatient and bottled it all this morning. I figured maybe it would rise in the bottle, or since it tasted good, who cares?

this is the first time I've even wanted to add acid. I usually do so early on in the process after crushing. This time I decided to wait on it and see what happened.
 

Johnd

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It's as 50/50 sangio/barbera blend.

I don't understand the comment about acidifying. If my TA is high, I need to deacidify it. It's not like pH where lower is stronger.

johnd, It tasted fine, just wanted to abide by the rules, so to speak. Yes it had done MLF back in March.

stickman, I didn't know about the chilling, good to know. They don't mention that on the package haha!

Well, I was impatient and bottled it all this morning. I figured maybe it would rise in the bottle, or since it tasted good, who cares?

this is the first time I've even wanted to add acid. I usually do so early on in the process after crushing. This time I decided to wait on it and see what happened.
While your TA is a wee bit high, your pH was pushing the upper limit, removing acid only moves it higher. If it tastes good, that's the key, just manage the SO2 based on the pH and you should be just fine.
 

mendozer

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I ended up adding k-meta just before bottling. It was actually the first time measuring SO2 this year. I've never had a problem before, but thought it'd be worthwhile. I used the Accuvin kits. I couldn't tell what the value was! The colors were kind of faded on my label and it was difficulty to separate them from each other.

So...I was guessing. In previous years I'd just do 1/4 t for the whole 5 gallons whenever I racked.
 

mainshipfred

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While your TA is a wee bit high, your pH was pushing the upper limit, removing acid only moves it higher. If it tastes good, that's the key, just manage the SO2 based on the pH and you should be just fine.
When you say the TA was a wee bit too high itwas always my understanding dry reds should be between 6 and 7. But that's not my question. When referring to Ph being too high or raising or lowering the Ph does that mean the acidity or the numerical value? I read it both ways and it has always confused me.
 

Johnd

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When you say the TA was a wee bit too high itwas always my understanding dry reds should be between 6 and 7. But that's not my question. When referring to Ph being too high or raising or lowering the Ph does that mean the acidity or the numerical value? I read it both ways and it has always confused me.
I shoot for a TA of around 6.0, pH of 3.5-3.6 on most reds, pinots are reportedly better around 7.0. When I said a wee bit, I meant it, and if the wine tasted good, probably wouldn't have adjusted it.

As far as pH, lowering pH requires the addition of acid, so a lower pH number refers to higher acid in the wine. So, when you add acid to a wine, generally speaking, expect to see the TA increase and the pH decrease. Conversely, removing acid with a product designed to do so, will decrease the TA and raise the pH.

Sometimes, the buffering capacity of a wine can stifle the expected results, but the above is generally true. Makes sense??
 

mainshipfred

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I shoot for a TA of around 6.0, pH of 3.5-3.6 on most reds, pinots are reportedly better around 7.0. When I said a wee bit, I meant it, and if the wine tasted good, probably wouldn't have adjusted it.

As far as pH, lowering pH requires the addition of acid, so a lower pH number refers to higher acid in the wine. So, when you add acid to a wine, generally speaking, expect to see the TA increase and the pH decrease. Conversely, removing acid with a product designed to do so, will decrease the TA and raise the pH.

Sometimes, the buffering capacity of a wine can stifle the expected results, but the above is generally true. Makes sense??
So to be clear, we speaking of lowering the Ph it is the numerical value that get lowered and of course the acidity increases. That's what I thought but I swear I've read people doing the oppposite. Thank you
 

Johnd

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So to be clear, we speaking of lowering the Ph it is the numerical value that get lowered and of course the acidity increases. That's what I thought but I swear I've read people doing the oppposite. Thank you
Yes, you are correct.
 

mendozer

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Yeah that's why I didn't get the acidification comment. Moot now but, also, I've referenced 4-5.5 g/L as TA in Pambianchi's book. 6-8 is must values.
 

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