Racking During Bulk ageing

[av8torx]

Thanks! The directions say after 10 days in stage two bring the SG to 0.996. If not there wait two more days to get there. Mine has been at around 68 to 70 degrees, hence the need for more time. I am following the directions and being extra sanitary so I will have faith it will taste good in time. I just was a tad surprized to see it taste tard. I like red wines. Any recommendations of good wine kits to go with? All I am doing is winexperts so far. The directions are very good! Dave

 

[ErikM]

When I want to age a wine, I prefer bulk aging. I do not rack at all during bulk aging. Racking introduces too much risk of contamination and needless exposure to air (oxygen+). I do sulfite about every 4-6 months. When I do sulfite, its light (about 1/4 tsp), and I stir it in gently to keep exposure to air at a minimum.

 

[Dhaynes]

Thanks! The directions say after 10 days in stage two bring the SG to 0.996. If not there wait two more days to get there. Mine has been at around 68 to 70 degrees, hence the need for more time. I am following the directions and being extra sanitary so I will have faith it will taste good in time. I just was a tad surprized to see it taste tard. I like red wines. Any recommendations of good wine kits to go with? All I am doing is winexperts so far. The directions are very good! Dave

A strategy that a lot of people have used to build up their wine cellar is to do a few quick drinking kits like the Island Mist or a white Vintners Reserve. This gives you something decent to drink while you wait for your more expensive kits and reds to age. The IM kits can be drunk a week or so after bottling but generally are better if you age them for 1-3 months. We like the Pom Zin and Black Raspberry Merlot. If you like sweeter wines the White Cranberry Pinot Gris is hard to beat.

 

[Dhaynes]

Sorry the tool created a duplicate post so I deleted the second post.

 

[av8torx]

Hi, I found the online store House of Homebrew to be pretty good on prices for kits. Does anyone have a good recommendation on where to get wine kits?

 

[sour_grapes]

Hi, I found the online store House of Homebrew to be pretty good on prices for kits. Does anyone have a good recommendation on where to get wine kits?

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[David219]

Do you think the "tart" you are tasting might be CO2 still in suspension?

When I first started making kit wine, I followed the instructions exactly, thinking that by following the instructions that closely, I would end up with the highest quality end product. As many have stated, the kit manufacturers are marketing to a public that often sees speed to completion as a positive selling point. Plus it frees up carboys for them to sell more kits.

When I started bulk aging in carboys, I found my wines were much more still. No matter how aggressively I degassed my wines prior to this time, and at whatever ambient temperature, my early attempts all retained a slight amount of CO2. I think this is a less talked about benefit of bulk aging.

And since I've added an all in one vacuum pump and a Vadai 23L barrel to the process, my wines are perfectly still and clear (to my eye...I haven't filtered a kit wine yet) at bottling.

Good luck! Patience will be rewarded in the end...

 

[av8torx]

Thanks! Do you think bulk aging in a carboy vs in the bottles will yield a better quality of the wine? I am going to use my drill and stir the CO2 out tomorrow. I would like to think these kit companies want you to produce a good wine so you'll come back for more. I guess I could buy a few more carboys and store my wines in those for a while before bottling. My friend says KISS ( keep it simple...) with these kits. There is always a way to tweak anything.

 

[heatherd]

Thanks! Do you think bulk aging in a carboy vs in the bottles will yield a better quality of the wine? I am going to use my drill and stir the CO2 out tomorrow. I would like to think these kit companies want you to produce a good wine so you'll come back for more. I guess I could buy a few more carboys and store my wines in those for a while before bottling. My friend says KISS ( keep it simple...) with these kits. There is always a way to tweak anything.

More carboys is the solution to every winemaking problem!!

When I first started I bottle aged more than bulk aged, now I do more bulk aging. There are benefits of bulk aging, in that the wine clears and degasses itself during that time. Plus I can add oak and tannins while bulk aging. Also it allows me to easily sample from the carboy. I think even if you bulk age for three months it is beneficial.

 

[sour_grapes]

Thanks! Do you think bulk aging in a carboy vs in the bottles will yield a better quality of the wine? I am going to use my drill and stir the CO2 out tomorrow. I would like to think these kit companies want you to produce a good wine so you'll come back for more. I guess I could buy a few more carboys and store my wines in those for a while before bottling. My friend says KISS ( keep it simple...) with these kits. There is always a way to tweak anything.

Yeah, it is a real tradeoff between bulk aging time and winemaking throughput (for a given number of carboys). I do not have much room, so I am limited to four carboys. I have settled on a system where I can start a new wine every month, and still bulk age each wine for about 3 mos. I degas under vacuum to speed things ups, and this seems to be a sufficient bulk aging time. I then age in the bottle, giving a total of 18 mos. (Now that I have built up a pretty good stock, I am slowing down production and bulk aging longer.)

 

[av8torx]

Ok Maybe I should get a few more carboys. Do you think plastic is ok? The big questions I have are: How much and how often to add sulphates in the carboy? Do you need to top off the carboy ( with similar wine) when aging? Do you use an airlock or solid bung? What is a good vacuum to get and do you use it on a topped off carboy and for how long? My KISS principle is going out the window!!!

 

[David219]

The wine won't further de-gas in the bottle...that is one HUGE difference with bulk aging, IMO. My experience (30+ kits) has been that bottling when the instructions said I COULD bottle equated to slightly gassy wine, regardless of how long I waited to drink it.
Prior to getting my barrel and after noticing the gassiness of my wines as I followed the bottling timeline exactly as the kit instructions recommended, I went to a rough schedule of 5-7 days in primary fermentation (based on SG readings), racked to complete fermentation for around 15 days (also based on SG), degassed/added KMeta and sorbate and let sit for three weeks, then racked again (adding additional KMeta) to further clear and de-gas for another 50 days. So around 90 days from start of fermentation to bottling.
When I got my barrel, I began to extend the bulk aging out further...and invested in a Vinmetrica to test SO2 levels.

Time is your friend in achieving well de-gassed wine.

 

[sour_grapes]

Ok Maybe I should get a few more carboys. Do you think plastic is ok? The big questions I have are: How much and how often to add sulphates in the carboy? Do you need to top off the carboy ( with similar wine) when aging? Do you use an airlock or solid bung? What is a good vacuum to get and do you use it on a topped off carboy and for how long? My KISS principle is going out the window!!!

Sure, plastic is fine, IMHO.
You could safely add 1/4 tsp of sulfite (note spelling) every 3 mos.
Yes, you need to top off carboy to minimize oxidation.
Either airlock or solid bung is fine once wine is degassed. I use an airlock.
I don't know my exact vacuum, but I believe it is in the 27-28 inHg range (gauge pressure). I do this for ~1/2 hour, while agitating (i.e.. shaking) a half-full carboy.

NOTE: I had originally stated "27-28 psi range (gauge pressure)." However, Stickman (see below) pointed out that this was nonsense. I meant, as he pointed out, "27-28 inHg range (gauge pressure)."

 

[stickman]

I don't know my exact vacuum, but I believe it is in the 27-28 psi range (gauge pressure). I do this for ~1/2 hour, while agitating (i.e.. shaking) a half-full carboy.

27 psig is a deep vacuum, I think you you mean 27 inHg

 

[sour_grapes]

27 psig is a deep vacuum, I think you you mean 27 inHg

You are absolutely correct! I did mean 27 inHg. 27 psig is not a deep vacuum, it is, in fact, a physical impossibility! I will fix it in the original and reference you.

 

[vacuumpumpman]

If this helps at all - i have found that 4 in. of vacuum can and will collapse a plastic carboy, using the allinonewinepump.

 

[FTC Wines]

Av8torx, before U go out and buy a bunch of plastic carboys U need to think where ur wine making is taking U. Many of us have gone to a vacuum pump, like the All In One, so we don't have to lift our carboys. Also degassing with vacuum has made a big difference in my wines. And bottling is so much easier too. You cannot degas in a plastic carboy. (Don't ask me how I know). Just a thought. Roy

 

[av8torx]

Thanks! Great info. I guess if I get serious with this wine making I need a few glass carboys! Buy the time I buy all this stuff my wine will only cost 30$ a bottle!!! Can you age in carboy without a vacuum pump? My friend said he tried to age in a carboy and had the oxidation ruin his batch. He probably didn't top off the carboy or add sulfites. What type of sulfite do you add? I think I have some that also can be used as a sanitizer.

 

[richmke]

Buy the time I buy all this stuff my wine will only cost 30$ a bottle!!!

But then each additional batch is much cheaper.

Can you age in carboy without a vacuum pump?

Yes. The vacuum pump helps with racking, but you can wait to buy it. Just buy glass carboys in the meantime for when you can splurge on the pump.

What type of sulfite do you add?

Potassium Metabisulfite. Otherwise abbreviate here as K-Meta, with "k" being the symbol for Potassium.

I think I have some that also can be used as a sanitizer.

Yes, but I use the cheaper form of Sodium Metabisulfite for sanitation purposes.

 

[sour_grapes]

Thanks! Great info. I guess if I get serious with this wine making I need a few glass carboys! Buy the time I buy all this stuff my wine will only cost 30$ a bottle!!! Can you age in carboy without a vacuum pump? My friend said he tried to age in a carboy and had the oxidation ruin his batch. He probably didn't top off the carboy or add sulfites. What type of sulfite do you add? I think I have some that also can be used as a sanitizer.

Absolutely, you an age without having a vacuum pump. You put your finger on the two steps to minimize oxidation: top off your carboy, and add sulfites. (And make sure your airlocks are filled!)

We almost all use potassium metabisulfite ("k-meta"). It is available as a powder. Yes, it can be used as a sanitizer if you make a strong solution of it.