Question on oxygen getting to wine

[Swede]

Hello all, I'm new to the forums and new to wine making so please forgive me if I don't make too much sense. I've been studying up some on it and have equipment on order so I plan on joining the ranks of wine makers.


I'm a little confused on the whole oxygen getting to the wine part as it pertains to processing the wine prior to the final bottling.


In secondary fermentation, you use the air lock to keep all the O2 off the wine, but when you transfer to a new carboy, are you not introducing harmful O2 back into the process? (Like degassing and transferring.)


Also, I've read where for bottling, that you can transfer the wine to your primary fermenter and bottle from there, but thatbucket is hugely open to air... wouldn't that make the wine taste bad for being exposed to air?


All this kind of leads me up to a related question that's also burning in my mind... if you didn't want to bottle, but rather bulk age in a carboy for say a year or so then bottle it when it's peaked for example, do you have to do anything special regarding letting all the air get to the wine during your bottling process?


Sorry for all the questions.


-Kelly

 

[grapeman]

Welcome Swede!


You are not alone in your question about the air exposure. About everyone wonders the same thing at some time or another. While in the carboy, properly topped up there is very little airspace, and very little surface area exposed to that air. Generally some C02 comes out of the wine as small left over bubbles and forms a protective layer over the wine. While transfering, it is exposed to the air, but just the surface area and only for a small amount of time so exposure is limited- same thing when transferring at bottling.


Special attention while bulk aging- every few months check the S02 levels with a test or at least add an extra 1/4 tsp k-meta before bulk aging. This will protect the wine while aging. Then at bottling, check and adjust again.

 

[uavwmn]

Welcome Swede!!!This is a great place to learn about wine making. Great people and advice.

 

[Swede]

Special attention while bulk aging- every few months check the S02 levels with a test or at least add an extra 1/4 tsp k-meta before bulk aging. This will protect the wine while aging. Then at bottling, check and adjust again.

If the S02 levels are elevated when you test on your bulk-aged carboy, would that mean that that it needs another shot of k-meta, or would that mean that it needs to be degassed again? (Or both?)


-Kelly

 

[Swede]

Welcome Swede!!!This is a great place to learn about wine making. Great people and advice.

Thank you! I had been lurking and just reading for the past couple weeks but I thought I would pop in and say hi. Andperhaps ask some seemingly silly questions.

 

[grapeman]

S02 is a gas in the wine that acts as a preservative. If the levels are adequate, you wouldn't need to add more k-meta. It doesn't mean it needs degassing- that would indicate C02 in the wine- a bi-product of fermentation. If C02 is in high amounts that is when it needs degassing.

 

[Mike1973]

Welcome Kelly, LOVE the pics on your site!

 

[smurfe]

It is impossible to keep oxygen from the wine. Your goal is to limit the exposure as much as possible. It is realized that O2 will be exposed at times such as racking and bottling. Just don't let it sit in an open bucket for a day or so. Do what you have to do as quickly as possible to limit the exposure. Welcome to the forums!

 

[NorthernWinos]

Welcome Swede....Love the photographs on your Web page...Awesome!!!!

 

[Wade E]

Welcome Swede, I am 1 to! Everyone has given you very accurate info.

 

[Waldo]

Welcome swede......some awesome photography

 

[Swede]

Thank you very much for the compliments. I probably have too many hobbies, butlike jello, there's alwaysroom formore.And yes, I will probably try to integrate and use someof myphotography skills to make some unique labels for my wine.

It is impossible to keep oxygen from the wine. Your goal is to limit the exposure as much as possible. It is realized that O2 will be exposed at times such as racking and bottling. Just don't let it sit in an open bucket for a day or so. Do what you have to do as quickly as possible to limit the exposure. Welcome to the forums!

I think you hit on the heart of my question.From the tone of some of the material I could find,it eluded to the possibility thatjust minutes of exposure to O2wasbad. Although I haven't really found anything that specifically says what the approximate safe exposure is.


I may have a completely wrong impression on the amount of tolerable time allowed for exposure. It sounds like from what you're saying that I don't have to worry quite that much, and perhaps even 30 minutes of exposure is not that big of deal?


I've been trying to figure out how one could get from bulk storage through the bottling task without spoiling a good batch.


Will the wine "recover" from exposure by being in the bottle over time?


Thank you all very much for your input.


-KellyEdited by: Swede

 

[smurfe]

As others have said sulfite levels help protect your wine from oxygen. Many get confused what the sulfite's are for. We read many posts where someone asks about stabilizing their wine for bottling by adding sulfite's. The sulfite's are added to protect the wine from the O2 andif your wine has the proper sulfite levels yourdegree of oxidation decreases. It still will happen as the sulfite's will gas off in the open air so don't dilly dally around but you can take your time to do things right and the 30 minutes you speak of isn't out of the question. I probably have my wine in the bottling bucket that long while bottling a batch.

 

[grapeman]

IWill the wine "recover" from exposure by being in the bottle over time?




-Kelly

You hit it on the head Kelly. That is called Bottle Shock (loose term) and every wine goes throught it. Different wines respond differently, but they all get over it unless contaminated and not adequatedly protected with proper sanitation and stabilization procedures.


I can surely see where you can get some great label materials.

 

[Wade E]

Swede, when a wine is aged in a barrel it is exposed to small amounts of air as the barrels are porous and let air in and let the wine evaporate out, this is called the "Angels Share". This small amount of o2 is called micro-oxygenation and is actually very good for helping a wine smooth out. This is the reason why people do not throw out barrels even when the barrel is neutral meaning that no oak flavor is expelled from it anymore.
Edited by: wade

 

[geocorn]

A little oxygen is good for the wine, a lot is bad.






Very nice pictures. Can I assume from all of the shots of Oklahoma, that you are a fellow Okie?

 

[Swede]

Wow... lots of good info. Thank you! Yes, that definitely helps me out a bunch.


I am indeed an Okie now... been here for about 24 years now. I grew up in Northern Minnesota and that's where most of my family is at.


Each of my two brothers are wine makers and as their children have been married, they made the wine for the wedding. (A couple big weddings at that.) My son gets married around June of next year so apparently I now have family tradition to uphold. I've wanted to get into wine making for years now but just didn't take the plunge. I have a good excuse to get me going now so I'm excited to take it up. I have really enjoyed the wines my brothers have made and I love wine in general. I don't know a great deal about wine and wine types, just that I enjoy it.


One of my brothers had made a Blueberry wine that I thought was probably the most delicious wine I had ever tasted. I don't think he used a kit or anthing to create it, just went by taste. My goal is try and recreate something like that, and maybe experiment with some others.


I'm usually a very fast learner. For my very first wine though I did select a kit, one not too expensive in case I screw something up. A Blueberry Shiraz that sounded good, and said it could be enjoyed at a very yong age. (I bought all my equipment and the Blueberry Shiraz from this site.)After I get a few batches under my belt and feel more comfortable with the whole process, I want to tackle a couple of the high-quality long-aging wines. Like a nice full bodied red.


I may have more questions as I progress so hopefully you all won't get tired of having me around. There is obviously an amazingwealth of knowledge here among seasoned wine makers and I would love to benefit from some of that experience.


At some point, probabably later this year, I may take a "field trip" out to one of our local wineries or one that's not too far away. Would like to get some picturesof grapes on the vine in a vinyard or oak barrels aging and see if I can come up with some cool label ideas. Gotta work that creative side too.

Thanks!


-KellyEdited by: Swede

 

[PeterZ]

Kelly, I think George summed it up with "A little oxygen is good for the wine, a lot is bad." The SO2 in the wine will react with small amounts of O2 and neutralize it. When a wine is young and harsh it can be smoothed out by decanting and sitting open exposed to the air for a half hour or so. If, however, you leave it in the decanter for a week it will oxidize and turn brown, just like a cut apple.


If you want wine for a wedding next June it's time to get to work!

 

[Wade E]

The Blueberry Shiraz is a low alc wine sort of like a wine cooler. When you start this or the next one if that is already done fermenting you could up the alc by adding more sugar to it in the beginning or in the middle of fermentation, say around 1.025. You can also up the alc and reduce the sweeteness as these are pretty sweet wines by adding 1/2 the F-pac (2nd bag in the kit used for adding flavor and sweetness after wine is done) in the beginning or 1/2 way through. These Mist kits will not last more then about 2 years before they start deteriorating because of the low abv. The added alc will make them last longer and make them more of a traditional fruit wine but will also VOID THE WARRANTY.

 

[Swede]

When a wine is young and harsh it can be smoothed out by decanting and sitting open exposed to the air for a half hour or so. If, however, you leave it in the decanter for a week it will oxidize and turn brown, just like a cut apple.


If you want wine for a wedding next June it's time to get to work!

I had never heard that term before. I may have to try that if I taste test anew batch that is really harsh. Good information!


And yeah, I thought I had better get in gear. I'm not exactly sure what to make but will probably pick something that's good and fairly fool-proof since I won't have a lot of time to make mistakes and still have enough ready in time.

The Blueberry Shiraz is a low alc wine sort of like a wine cooler. When you start this or the next one if that is already done fermenting you could up the alc by adding more sugar to it in the beginning or in the middle of fermentation, say around 1.025. You can also up the alc and reduce the sweeteness as these are pretty sweet wines by adding 1/2 the F-pac (2nd bag in the kit used for adding flavor and sweetness after wine is done) in the beginning or 1/2 way through. These Mist kits will not last more then about 2 years before they start deteriorating because of the low abv. The added alc will make them last longer and make them more of a traditional fruit wine but will also VOID THE WARRANTY.

I'm assuming the low alcohol of the wine is to preserve the flavor and deliver more of it to your pallette, is that correct? If I were to increase the abv a little, would I loose some flavor?


Since this is my first kit (I haven't received it yet) I may just follow the instructions verbatim. I have an awful lot to experience. But that makes perfect sense. Depending on how this one turns out, I may do exactly as you suggest for the next batch. Also, I didn't realize the kits came with a warranty. That's kind of neat.


-Kelly