Plans for 2020?

[NorCal]

I’m thinking a barrel fermented Chardonnay. I have a line on a neutral 60 gallon French oak barrel, used for whites and I have a source for grapes, although I’d like to get a better one.

I need to cut back on my red production, but I have a wonderful barrel I don’t want to retire, maybe a Mourvèdre?

What are your plans?

 

[sour_grapes]

I’m thinking a barrel fermented Chardonnay. I have a line on a neutral 60 gallon French oak barrel,

Isn't the whole point of barrel-fermenting Chardonnay is to give it some oak? If not, what does barrel-fermenting bring to the party? (Honest question.)

 

[NorCal]

Isn't the whole point of barrel-fermenting Chardonnay is to give it some oak? If not, what does barrel-fermenting bring to the party? (Honest question.)

Valid question. The issue is a new barrel would give too much oak, it’s easier to add staves than to have to take the wine out after a short duration. Most winemakers I talk to like around 25% new oak on their whites.

 

[Boatboy24]

Valid question. The issue is a new barrel would give too much oak, it’s easier to add staves than to have to take the wine out after a short duration. Most winemakers I talk to like around 25% new oak on their whites.

Interesting. Granted, it was a kit, but I barrel fermented a Chardonnay a while back - brand new barrel. Since the wine was only in there for about a week, no issues with overdoing the oak. But I imagine you'd be doing a cool ferment that might last weeks.

 

[stickman]

I don't have any experience with barrel fermentation of Chardonnay, but I've heard winemakers say that barrel fermentation, even in a neutral barrel, will add mid-palate texture.

 

[NorCal]

It’s been a month and the plans have already changed. Looking to do 15-20 gallons of Viognier and a barrel of red. My plan right now is to do a barrel of Merlot.

I reached an agreement with a local vineyard owner; let me care for a row and I’ll buy all the fruit. They agreed. The Merlot barrel will have Cab Franc and Petit Verdot, maybe Cabernet Sauvignon if I can swap some grapes with @4score.

 

[Johnd]

So the total plan for @NorCal is 80 gallons? 20 of Viogner and a 60 gallon barrel. That’s your number and you’re sticking to it?

 

[mainshipfred]

I've learned to take @NorCal 's beginning plans with a grain of salt. He'll be doing twice that much before the season is over.

 

[NorCal]

So the total plan for @NorCal is 80 gallons? 20 of Viogner and a 60 gallon barrel. That’s your number and you’re sticking to it?

That is the plan and I’m really liking blends and I’ve committed to the vineyard owner to take a row of Merlot fruit, so this year’s plans are firming up.

The single barrel plus some white was my plan this year on my Cab Franc, Merlot, Cab Sauv, Petit Verdot 60 gallon blend. But, you never want to be short, so I ended up with 5 extra carboys of over-runs, which I’ll throw all together and make 10 cases of a 50%/48%/ 2% CF/Merlot/PV blend.

 

[Johnd]

That is the plan and I’m really liking blends and I’ve committed to the vineyard owner to take a row of Merlot fruit, so this year’s plans are firming up.

The single barrel plus some white was my plan this year on my Cab Franc, Merlot, Cab Sauv, Petit Verdot 60 gallon blend. But, you never want to be short, so I ended up with 5 extra carboys of over-runs, which I’ll throw all together and make 10 cases of a 50%/48%/ 2% CF/Merlot/PV blend.

Sounds like a solid plan. The “don’t want to run short” part always makes me overshoot, especially since my formula for how many pounds I need is already a bit liberal. Filled a new 60 this past season, plus a neutral 30, three carboys left over. Excess wine is comforting......

 

[winemaker81]

Current plans? Last fall I connected with a group that makes a bulk purchase of West Coast grapes. My current intention for this fall is 15+ gallons each of Sangiovese and Tempranillo. This depends on which varieties are available during our shipment window, so things may vary, or when I see the fall's list I may change my mind. My thought is 8 lugs of each, although I may swap out 2 lugs in each batch for complementary varieties.

One alternate is 6 lugs of Merlot, 1 Cabernet Sauvignon, and 1 of another Bordeaux grape. So many ideas, too little space ...

Regardless, I'll do a second run on each -- I'm very pleased with the current Malbec/Merlot/Zinfandel blend.

In December I purchased a 10 yo neutral barrel. The couple I purchased it from have another they want to sell. If thinks work out I'll buy that one as well.

A big advantage of a neutral barrel is I add whatever oak cubes I want, including mixing varieties. I'm not limited to the barrel itself.

 

[Dennis Griffith]

I've always thought that barrels also help to 'concentrate' the flavor of the wine (in addition to tannins). Am I wrong in my assumption?

 

[mainshipfred]

I've always thought that barrels also help to 'concentrate' the flavor of the wine (in addition to tannins). Am I wrong in my assumption?

It absolutely does concentrate the wine due to micro-oxygenation. However older barrels loose their ability to give off tannins as well as oak. So depending on the style one is going for tannins will also need to be added with the oak alternates.

 

[Adam Beck]

I’m trying to get a type 02 license so I can work out of this shared winemaking space near me. It’s been slow to get going due to the Coronavirus, though. I have a connection for 1/2 ton of Carignane, I was planning to do 1/4 ton as a semi-carbonic red, and 1/4 as a rosé, then make a piquette from the leftover must. Right now I’m thinking I’ll get a couple of flextanks to age the wines, but I’m still not dead set on that. While 1/2 ton isn’t a huge amount of grapes it’s a huge step up for me, so I’m still trying to wrap my head around all the logistics and things I’ll need.

 

[winemaker81]

My understanding of barrel aging is the evaporation of water/alcohol in the wine concentrates the remaining constituents in addition to micro-oxygenation.

Regarding fermentation in a neutral barrel and using an oak addition (staves, spirals, cubes, chips, etc.) -- is there an advantage to this over fermenting in plastic or stainless steel with added oak products?

 

[cmason1957]

My understanding of barrel aging is the evaporation of water/alcohol in the wine concentrates the remaining constituents in addition to micro-oxygenation.

Regarding fermentation in a neutral barrel and using an oak addition (staves, spirals, cubes, chips, etc.) -- is there an advantage to this over fermenting in plastic or stainless steel with added oak products?

The Micro-Oxygenation and the evaporation/concentration doesn't happen in stainless or plastic. From what I understand it can happen in FlexTanks. Daniel Pambianchi (and I should probably look his name up so as to type it correctly) is doing a controlled long-term study on the differences between a barrel and flextanks and so far he has seen very little difference.

 

[mainshipfred]

The Micro-Oxygenation and the evaporation/concentration doesn't happen in stainless or plastic. From what I understand it can happen in FlexTanks. Daniel Pambianchi (and I should probably look his name up so as to type it correctly) is doing a controlled long-term study on the differences between a barrel and flextanks and so far he has seen very little difference.

I can't remember what it was but I think there was some flaw with his latest results.

 

[cmason1957]

I can't remember what it was but I think there was some flaw with his latest results.

It had something to do with the seal of the lid on the flextank. If I understood correctly, you need to tighten it more than just finger tight or something like that, it was a minor difference in dissolved oxygen 25 µg DO/L more in the FlexTank than the barrel. I don't quite understand why or what dissolved oxygen is and why it makes a difference, so ....

 

[winemaker81]

I didn't know that flextanks have a similar effect to barrels. Good to know.

 

[mainshipfred]

It had something to do with the seal of the lid on the flextank. If I understood correctly, you need to tighten it more than just finger tight or something like that, it was a minor difference in dissolved oxygen 25 µg DO/L more in the FlexTank than the barrel. I don't quite understand why or what dissolved oxygen is and why it makes a difference, so ....

I believe if a wine has too much DO, especially prior to bottling, since it reacts with the free SO2 reducing the the concentration. To what degree I don't know and for some reason whites are supposed to have less DO than reds. It could be that the tannins in reds are anti oxidants. But then again I could be wrong. I do sparge my wines with Argon prior to bottling but reading a recent post it appears it may strip the wine of aromatic qualities so I have to look into it a little deeper. However and again no proof but since most of us vacuum rack and bottle I would think our DO levels are lower than wines that are pumped to transfer.