Early vs late oaking

[BarrelMonkey]

I'm planning to make some Syrah this year - 1/4 ton grapes so I'm expecting 30+ gallons of wine. I would like some oak influence at some stage but curious as to whether anyone has any references or experience regarding when to add oak. 'Adding oak' here might mean using some wood adjunct or spending time in a new barrel.

I like the idea of barrel aging but I think that a whole year in a new 30-gal barrel will be too much: I would probably go 5-6 months at the most. What I'd ideally like to do is to keep the wine in stainless steel or glass for the first 5-6 months, then transfer to a new barrel. That way, I would be transferring out of the new barrel in time to use it for my 2024 red (whatever that might be). But I'm curious as to whether there would be differences in extraction, flavor etc. compared to if I were to initially put the wine in the new barrel, then move to neutral container after ~6 months? The downside of this is that I'd have to keep the barrel empty and in good shape for another 6 months before it was used again - probably not a deal breaker but an added complication.

Or, of course, I could skip the barrel idea and buy a HDPE tank with oak chips/staves/cubes added...'

 

[vinny]

I am not going to speak on the timing. Although I personally like the ease of moving the 2024 wine into the barrel without storage issues. I just wanted to say the barrel will be WAY more fun than HDPE, so I think it is your only rational choice.

 

[winemaker81]

The timing doesn't make any difference to the wine, whether it spends 6 months in oak then 6 months in steel, or the reverse. Barrel management is the hard part.

Note that part of the value of the barrel is the concentration effect of water/alcohol evaporating through the wood.

 

[BarrelMonkey]

The timing doesn't make any difference to the wine, whether it spends 6 months in oak then 6 months in steel, or the reverse.

I guess this seems odd to me since the wine changes so much over the first 6 months of aging in terms of its chemistry and flavor profile. Early barreling will give more time for the tannins to integrate, whereas I think it will be easier (for me at least) to assess the changes to the flavor profile if the barrel component is 'added' at a later time.

 

[winemaker81]

I guess this seems odd to me since the wine changes so much over the first 6 months of aging in terms of its chemistry and flavor profile. Early barreling will give more time for the tannins to integrate, whereas I think it will be easier (for me at least) to assess the changes to the flavor profile if the barrel component is 'added' at a later time.

You make a good point. At the same time, after a year of bulk aging (mixed wood/steel) and a year in the bottle, how much difference will there be? I suspect it might be less than you expect, but that's speculation on my part.

Too bad you won't have wine to fill the barrel twice, as then you'd have a great experiment.

 

[Cap Puncher]

I recall reading that malolactic help to integrate fruit and new oak while in the barrel. Do you plan to do a sequential malolactic or co-ferment? Here is some presentation I remember finding before.

https://www.gencowinemakers.com/docs/OakFermentationSeminarJan2009.pdf

 

[BarrelMonkey]

I recall reading that malolactic help to integrate fruit and new oak while in the barrel. Do you plan to do a sequential malolactic or co-ferment? Here is some presentation I remember finding before.

https://www.gencowinemakers.com/docs/OakFermentationSeminarJan2009.pdf

This is great, thanks! I scanned through the slides but will definitely need to read in more depth.

I'm planning on initiating ML after AF has finished, which might be another reason to barrel down early (according to the slides you posted, ML may promote release of some aroma/flavor compounds from oak). I'm also considering doing the primary ferment in oak; I have a (neutral) 60 gal barrel which should be about the right size if I pop the head off and turn it on its end. (We do AF in oak at the winery where I work, though in that case it's 500L puncheons...)

 

[Raptor99]

I don't have any barrels, but I do add oak chips or cubes to the secondary. The amount of time on oak depends on your flavor profile goal, as well as the type and toast level of the oak, the form of the oak, termperature, etc. Wines with higher tannin levels require longer aging and benefit more from aging. Given enough time aging, they can become rich and smooth.

If you are adding oak in the secondary, my preference would be to do it early in the aging process. The tannins help to protect the wine from oxidation, and it will be ready to drink sooner because the tannins will have more time to age before bottling. When using chips or cubes, I start with a small amount. If I get the amount of oak right, then there is no need to rack off of oak because the oak chips/cubes will have given up all of their flavor and tannins in the first month or so. I have left wines age for 1 one year on oak chips with no problems. The key is to not add too much oak.

Oak added at the very beginning has a totally different purpose. I also powdered "wine tannin" to the primary for fruits that don't have much natural tannin. Since the primary stage is usually fairly short, chips wouldn't have enough time to give up their tannins. The initial tannin is "sacrificial tannin" help protect the wine as it ferments and to bind and retain the flavoniods. Search for "sacrificial tannin" for more info.

 

[BarrelMonkey]

thanks all, I guess I'm convinced that early is better as I just ordered a barrel for this year's harvest