I would get rid of the raisins all together. Keep the fruit in some juice and add some ascorbic acid if you have any. It is a anti-oxidant but will not hinder fermentation at all. It will prevent your fruit and must from turning brown from 02 exposure.
Pear Wine No Fermentation
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This sure has turned out to be a problematic one for you. Not sure how, but you must have gotten a really high dose of S02 in it somehow from some source. The swapping buckets should bring down the levels. If you happened to have one, an S02 test would let you know what levels you have. The easiest to use would be the Accuvin test vials.
Thanks guys. I don't have an SO2 tester but after this I may may get one. What raisin brand does everyone else use? This was the popular brand with the woman on the front, can't think of the name right now but probably the most popular brand in the country. I decided to leave the raisins in for one more try. I will remove them tomorrow if it doesn't start. I dry pitched two packages of yeast (tired of making starters) One was the Montrachet from Red Star (says it has a high tolerance to SO2) the other was K1-V1116 from Lavlin the so called killer yeast.
This has been going on so long I'm over the disappointment now. Must be the preservative in the raisins. Thinking about it, raisins keep a long time without refrigeration. I know they are dried but still?
Funny thing if I pick through the bag of fruit tomorrow. The pectic enzyme has broken down the pears to almost nothing. The raisins are very intact. Won't be much left in the bag.
Can't say I'm any kind of experienced expert in country wines but I've never had a stuck fermentation prior to this one. Live and learn.
Drtdocter
This has been going on so long I'm over the disappointment now. Must be the preservative in the raisins. Thinking about it, raisins keep a long time without refrigeration. I know they are dried but still?
Funny thing if I pick through the bag of fruit tomorrow. The pectic enzyme has broken down the pears to almost nothing. The raisins are very intact. Won't be much left in the bag.
Can't say I'm any kind of experienced expert in country wines but I've never had a stuck fermentation prior to this one. Live and learn.
Drtdocter
Yes, all raisins are sulfited and I just read that Sunmaid also contains vegetable oil and partially hydrogenated cottonseed oil. Put these things together and it is a recipe for disaster How much raisins did you put in this batch?
NorthernWinos
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I just looked on my box of Sunmaid Golden Raisins and the bag of dark raisins....On the box of golden raisins it lists Sulfur Dioxide as a preservative.
It didn't list oil on either package, but they always feel oily....Think it keeps them from sticking together......It didn't list any grams of fat.
I looked at a bag of large red Flame Raisins once and I think that package listed oil.
I think when Waldo has his oil problem he had a slick of oil on the surface that was starving the yeast for air....think he drained his primary from the bottom spigot and left the oil in the bucket that way.
With all the pouring you've done I am sure you have rinsed whatever the problem was off of the fruit and everything should be mixed up now....
This is a really interesting batch....will anxiously awaiting the outcome.....
Hope it starts fermenting for you and we can all learn from this.
It didn't list oil on either package, but they always feel oily....Think it keeps them from sticking together......It didn't list any grams of fat.
I looked at a bag of large red Flame Raisins once and I think that package listed oil.
I think when Waldo has his oil problem he had a slick of oil on the surface that was starving the yeast for air....think he drained his primary from the bottom spigot and left the oil in the bucket that way.
With all the pouring you've done I am sure you have rinsed whatever the problem was off of the fruit and everything should be mixed up now....
This is a really interesting batch....will anxiously awaiting the outcome.....
Hope it starts fermenting for you and we can all learn from this.
This is really interesting because I have used raisins on several occasions with no ill effects. I always chop them in a food processor and place then in a small straining bag for easy removal. I have also done a pear wine and it fermented readily. Weird.
When I have a wine that is tough to get started I add one well-mashed banana to the must. The banana floats and the yeast really get after it. My thinking is that the banana provides a sort of continuing starter. So far it has worked well and the small amount of banana doesn't affect the final taste of the wine at all.
For what its worth, my first pear wine is unimpressive after a year. I am going to try one more and, if it turns out the same, it will be my final pear.Edited by: Smokegrub
When I have a wine that is tough to get started I add one well-mashed banana to the must. The banana floats and the yeast really get after it. My thinking is that the banana provides a sort of continuing starter. So far it has worked well and the small amount of banana doesn't affect the final taste of the wine at all.
For what its worth, my first pear wine is unimpressive after a year. I am going to try one more and, if it turns out the same, it will be my final pear.Edited by: Smokegrub
I read somewhere else on here about the banana trick. Thats pretty neat.
<DIV id=ms__id174>This kind of a shot in the dark but... did you get these pears from the store? and if so, did you wash them off before hand?
<DIV id=ms__id175> Back in collegeI tookhealth and wellness and learned thatallot ofFruits bought from the store are coated pretty good with pesticides and fertilizer. Just rinsing off fruit is not enough and soap should be used with scrubbing.In fact some folks don't even eat the skin off commercial fruits.
<DIV id=ms__id176>This sounds like a pretty stubborn situation you got going here
<DIV id=ms__id178>
<DIV id=ms__id177>Wade I think the SG difference he had might be due to temperature change. 60 degrees Fis what a normal reading should be taken at.Sg changes about 2 degrees for every 5 degree temperature change. I use The wine calculator onwinecalc.com to make shure I'm on target because I'm usually in the 70 degree area.Edited by: Aaronh
<DIV id=ms__id174>This kind of a shot in the dark but... did you get these pears from the store? and if so, did you wash them off before hand?
<DIV id=ms__id175> Back in collegeI tookhealth and wellness and learned thatallot ofFruits bought from the store are coated pretty good with pesticides and fertilizer. Just rinsing off fruit is not enough and soap should be used with scrubbing.In fact some folks don't even eat the skin off commercial fruits.
<DIV id=ms__id176>This sounds like a pretty stubborn situation you got going here
<DIV id=ms__id178>
<DIV id=ms__id177>Wade I think the SG difference he had might be due to temperature change. 60 degrees Fis what a normal reading should be taken at.Sg changes about 2 degrees for every 5 degree temperature change. I use The wine calculator onwinecalc.com to make shure I'm on target because I'm usually in the 70 degree area.Edited by: Aaronh
Update. You can read what I did in a previous post. Aerated with back and forth pouring between primaries. Yes I put the bag containing the raisins back in, I'm stubborn what can I say.
48 hours later, nothing. I would have done this last night but didn't have time. Tonight, I pulled the bag and removed the raisins. Aerated again and added two packages of Lalvin K1-V1116 yeast as a killer yeast because I can't believe something isn't growing in there.
The must looks a bit darker but still tastes ok. Smells funny but I think it's all the yeast.
The Sunmaid golden raisins listed SO2 as a preservative but didn't list oil etc. Really nothing else.
After I pitched the yeast I read about the banana so I put one in there.
I read that you typically chop the raisins. How finely? I didn't chope them at all. How finely do you chop the pears. I had most chunks of pears about 3/4 in by 3/4 in. with some smaller.
Here is the recipe I used from Jack Keller's site although only used about 2/3 the recommended quantity of raisins. The recipe is for a one gallon batch, I made six gallons.
<ul>[*]4-6 lbs ripe pears
[*]1/2 lb chopped or minced white or golden raisins (or sultanas)
[*]1-3/4 lb finely granulated sugar
[*]3-1/4 quarts water (more or less, depending on amount of fruit used)
[*]1-1/2 tsp acid blend
[*]1/2 tsp pectic enzyme
[*]1/8 tsp grape tannin
[*]1 crushed Campden tablet
[*]1 tsp yeast nutrient
[*]1 packet Champagne yeast
[/list]I don't know but this is probably my last try with this one. Need to free up the primary and start something that works and put this in the past.
thanks for all your help!!
Drt Doctor
ps. don't believe all that stuff about pesticides and fertilizer on fruit grown in the US. I'm in the agriculture field and most fertilizer is put on the ground not on the fruit unless it's calcium and we've all taken Tums. Pesticide residues must be at levels as low as parts per billion when tested, although the acceptable level is different for each product. Our food supply is very safe and in no way would inhibit yeast unless a sulfite is applied to processed fruit to prevent spoilage.
48 hours later, nothing. I would have done this last night but didn't have time. Tonight, I pulled the bag and removed the raisins. Aerated again and added two packages of Lalvin K1-V1116 yeast as a killer yeast because I can't believe something isn't growing in there.
The must looks a bit darker but still tastes ok. Smells funny but I think it's all the yeast.
The Sunmaid golden raisins listed SO2 as a preservative but didn't list oil etc. Really nothing else.
After I pitched the yeast I read about the banana so I put one in there.
I read that you typically chop the raisins. How finely? I didn't chope them at all. How finely do you chop the pears. I had most chunks of pears about 3/4 in by 3/4 in. with some smaller.
Here is the recipe I used from Jack Keller's site although only used about 2/3 the recommended quantity of raisins. The recipe is for a one gallon batch, I made six gallons.
<ul>[*]4-6 lbs ripe pears
[*]1/2 lb chopped or minced white or golden raisins (or sultanas)
[*]1-3/4 lb finely granulated sugar
[*]3-1/4 quarts water (more or less, depending on amount of fruit used)
[*]1-1/2 tsp acid blend
[*]1/2 tsp pectic enzyme
[*]1/8 tsp grape tannin
[*]1 crushed Campden tablet
[*]1 tsp yeast nutrient
[*]1 packet Champagne yeast
[/list]I don't know but this is probably my last try with this one. Need to free up the primary and start something that works and put this in the past.
thanks for all your help!!
Drt Doctor
ps. don't believe all that stuff about pesticides and fertilizer on fruit grown in the US. I'm in the agriculture field and most fertilizer is put on the ground not on the fruit unless it's calcium and we've all taken Tums. Pesticide residues must be at levels as low as parts per billion when tested, although the acceptable level is different for each product. Our food supply is very safe and in no way would inhibit yeast unless a sulfite is applied to processed fruit to prevent spoilage.
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Hey Drt Doctor;
I have a dumb question for you here. Have you checked the SG lately? Is it possible that it had a real silent fementation and the alcohol level in it is keeping the yeast from beginning? I know this is a stretch, but it is very unusual for the yeast to die off from a yeast starter.
And yes, I agree with you on the fertilizer and pesticides. The drinking water usually has higher levels of those things in it than allowable levels on food products.
I have a dumb question for you here. Have you checked the SG lately? Is it possible that it had a real silent fementation and the alcohol level in it is keeping the yeast from beginning? I know this is a stretch, but it is very unusual for the yeast to die off from a yeast starter.
And yes, I agree with you on the fertilizer and pesticides. The drinking water usually has higher levels of those things in it than allowable levels on food products.
Scott
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DD,
That is the same receipe I used and all went well, but the onlydifference was I added 2 cans of white grape concentate.For the raisins I tried to chop but maybe only got a portion of them cut in half at the best, sticky little buggers. The pears were chunked the same size too.
It was not a very active ferm, just a very little sizzle.
Good Luck
That is the same receipe I used and all went well, but the onlydifference was I added 2 cans of white grape concentate.For the raisins I tried to chop but maybe only got a portion of them cut in half at the best, sticky little buggers. The pears were chunked the same size too.
It was not a very active ferm, just a very little sizzle.
Good Luck
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Scott said:
That is my thinking in asking for the current SG of the batch. Sometimes there is so little visible activity that you think it isn't doing anything and it ends up finishing without you ever thinking it began. Verification with the hydrometer will tell easily.
stormbringer
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This thread interest me because I'm presently making a 6 gallon batch of pear wine with what appears to be a slow starting fermentation. I use pear juice extracted from a steam-juicer, so the question of SO2 is discounted. (All equipment is thoroughly rinsed after sanitation) And all of my juices are pasteurized during the canning process to preserve it for later on.
My starting S.G. was 1.106. The yeast is one packet of EC 1118. Among other ingredients, there is 6 tsp. of yeast nutrient in addition to about 24 cups of sugar.
The fermentation was very slow to start. Tomorrow it will have been in the primary for a week. But the fermentation gradually started working. This morning the batch has what appears to be about a half inch head of foam on the surface and the audible "snap, crackle, and pop" of fermentation is present. I expect the usual vigorous fermentation to be present in a couple of days. The top of the primary is covered with a thin dish towel only.
I've noticed other country wines tend to display the same sort of slow starting fermentation. Don't know why but maybe I'm trying to compare this part of the process to the kit wines I've made.
For what ever reason, the slow starting fermentation seems to be the norm with my country wines. So far they have all turned out excellent. I have two bottles of pear, from this same recipe, waiting for April and the Peoples Choice tasting at Winestock.
I'd give the pear wine a little longer to start fermentation. You may be pleasantly surprised with the results.
</font>
My starting S.G. was 1.106. The yeast is one packet of EC 1118. Among other ingredients, there is 6 tsp. of yeast nutrient in addition to about 24 cups of sugar.
The fermentation was very slow to start. Tomorrow it will have been in the primary for a week. But the fermentation gradually started working. This morning the batch has what appears to be about a half inch head of foam on the surface and the audible "snap, crackle, and pop" of fermentation is present. I expect the usual vigorous fermentation to be present in a couple of days. The top of the primary is covered with a thin dish towel only.
I've noticed other country wines tend to display the same sort of slow starting fermentation. Don't know why but maybe I'm trying to compare this part of the process to the kit wines I've made.
For what ever reason, the slow starting fermentation seems to be the norm with my country wines. So far they have all turned out excellent. I have two bottles of pear, from this same recipe, waiting for April and the Peoples Choice tasting at Winestock.
I'd give the pear wine a little longer to start fermentation. You may be pleasantly surprised with the results.
</font>
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Man this is a tough one! It may just be time to write it off and move onto something else. It would have been nice to finish it up, but it is just not wanting to ferment for whatever reason. If you were really determined, I would verify the current S02 , pH, brix(SG) and anything else you can think of. If everything is normal parameters, then make another starter and keep adding to it in doubles until you had the whole batch going. Example- make a starter in a cup of must, when active add 2 cups- when active add a quart and so on.
Yeah I've tried the starter and adding to it slowly, I think three times. Each time, using the must it started without problem. I'd add a cup and then two and got it up to a quart once and then I added another quart and it stopped.
Twice I had a starter going with two cups of must but when I added another cup it stopped??? That's why I got tired of doing starters and just started pitching dry yeast.
Twice I had a starter going with two cups of must but when I added another cup it stopped??? That's why I got tired of doing starters and just started pitching dry yeast.
Before you dump it, I would get some products to test for your acid, pH and so2. If I were you , not knowing what happend would haunt me, and you knows What happens when one is haunted by dead spirits around Christmas......
Oh, Happy Turkey day!
Oh, Happy Turkey day!
the only thing I didn't test wast he SO2. It's smelling a little funky now and so I'm going to dump it later today and start a kit. I just need to see something bubbling. I think after I rack the kit to a secondary I'll make a Welch's Grape Juice concentrate batch.
Thanks much everyone, I'm just going to try to forget this one. Some Chianti should help!
Thanks much everyone, I'm just going to try to forget this one. Some Chianti should help!
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