oxidation and racking: my experience. (long post)

[rshosted]

This is a topic from another topic. Let’s talk about
oxidation, flavor, and time. I have recently ruined two of my batches of wine.
I have noticed the phenomenon in a few other smaller bottles, but never with
whole batches.



In the previous times, I’ve racked to a smaller container, I
had a bottle or two leftover that wouldn’t fit, so I put them into 750ml
bottles. I would treat the rest of the batch as normal, but would just begin
storage of the single bottles. Well the big portion of the batch (in the carboy)
came out just fine, whereas the single bottles always came out with a
‘chocolate flavor’. It was not a good flavor.



I have come to the realization that the chocolate flavor was
from the lees still in the wine. Not that it didn’t appear clear, but wasn’t as
clear as it should have been. The amount of lees compared to the ratio of wine
in the single bottles was much higher than the carboy (which ended up getting
racked off, then bottled).



I finally found this has happened to two of my whole
batches. I allowed a little bit of air space in the top and bulk aged them too
long without racking. In one case the wine has a strong ‘chocolate’ flavor.
When I say chocolate, I don’t mean in a good way either. I mean in a
something’s wrong with this wine, it has an off flavor.



The other batch that has this problem is one that I put into my 5 gallon oak
barrel. Well, I wasn’t diligent and stopped paying attention to it for about 9
months. When I returned to rack and bottle the wine out of the barrel I found
about 1 gallon had evaporated. When I tasted the wine, it was HEAVILY oaked and
had a chocolate flavor to it. Not as much as the other batch, but still enough
to make it undesirable, especially to a wine drinker. I’ve given a few tastes
to others who do not drink wine, and they do not taste it until I point it out.




So what I’ve found is by not racking wine every few months
when bulk aging (if there is ANY sediment) and by not paying attention to
evaporation, I have ruined over $300 worth of wine. Not to mention the wines
are both already over a year old (something else that has taken me a long time
to be able to do.)



So I have 60 bottles of wine that is un-enjoyable,
expensive, and a disappointing. Needless to say, I will learn from these
mistakes.



So I’m curious of a few things. Has anyone else ever had
this happen to wine? If so, how would you describe the taste? Was yours from
too much headspace, or not racking off the lees enough? Anyone ever let it age
for years, what happens to it?

 

[Wade E]

Not yet to me but i dont let my wines bulk age anywhere near as long as you do.

 

[Dean]

I have had oxidation happen from too much headspace, but I've also had headspace for up to 5 months with no really ill effects. After that though, and it's a crap shoot what will happen to it. Now, if I leave too much headspace, I bottle it within about 3 months.

I often do bulk age on some lees, but not a lot, and they are usually very fine lees. I don't really think that this is a lot of dead yeast, but rather more residual solids that are falling out of solution. I think you've had issues with autolysed yeast, and did not like the flavors.

As far as the barrel goes, if you have a 5 gallon barrel, you need to make 6 gallons of wine for top ups. You need to check once a month for that, or you will get oxidation. On a brighter note, the next wine you put in there will not get overoaked! I think for a 5 gallon barrel, it goes like this: 1st wine for 3 weeks, 2nd wine for 6-8 weeks, 3rd wine for up to 5 months, 4th up to 9 months, and after that, you can start to age for years. Bigger barrels have a much different schedule.

I've left some wine for too long on the lees, but I would not describe the taste as chocolate, but in a red wine, it was closer to bacon and fat. I did not like it one bit. Oxidized wine tastes either like Sherry or port, but not in a good way.

 

[hannabarn]

That is very good info. I often wondered if it was necessary to rack off the lees. Now I know it is a good idea. Thanks

 

[Tomy]

I find its very easy to get lazy about racking wine. Oh the 1st racking goes as planned as you are watching it most every day and taking SG readings. Then there is so much talk about patience you start to slide on the second and third racking putting it off because another day or two won't hurt which can go to a week or two. This is when the problems can start for a wine that is perfect up to that point. Tomy

 

[rshosted]

exactly. I was just reading through some of my notes that I make when I make these two wines. I have found that they are both Crushendo kits. My notes say how impressive they tasted prior to bulk aging.

I also know that I racked them 3 or more times already (from the major lees) but that I allowed a sediment bottom to form and just left it there because it was so 'light'. Ultimately, I truly regret it now (duh!)

I chose to bottle both wines, even with them being flawed. I figure this can be more of an experiment, or if I have winemaking friends come over, I can give them a taste and allow them to learn from my mistakes.

From now on to avoid this, I plan to set a date in my blackberry to remind me to go down to the wine room and rack, or assess a wine. At least once a month. It's easy to put them into storage and forget about them as life goes on, but a few minute visit periodically will save a lot of wine and money.

 

[rshosted]

OK, I chatted with George on the phone for a bit. It was the first time I've ever talked with him in person and what a super nice guy. After bouncing ideas back and forth, I believe what I've come up with is the taste is mostly oxidation from barrel aging. The wine that was in the barrel for 9 months, and lost about 1 gallon of wine, had oxegyn in the barrel. This would account for the really bad taste of chocolate.

The other wine was only in the barrel for a short time, but probably could have used an extra addition of potassium metabisulphite, and could have been toped up once or twice during it's 2 month barrel ride.

I believe a lot of it was, that I was not use to the amount of wine lost in a barrel from "Angel's share" Plus because barrels breath more, you need ot be more diligent of the sulphite levels and topping up.

I have done a few other wines in the barrel that have come out 'primo'. But they had a short 'ride' in the barrel and would have had the time to get as much oxygen in them.

I also have a bit of a personal believe about barrels. Barrels facilitate a wine to be the best that they can. But it's like fine tuning an engine, if you push it too hard it will blow up. If you push it just right, you get real performance.

So when it comes to a barrel we need to realize that they are tools used to 'micro-oxygenate' wine. So, when a winery uses a barrel to 'age', or micro-oxygenate a wine they are doing it to a very large amount of wine. So they are minimizing the risk when compared to a 5 gallon barrel. One of the primary reasons for this is because the surface to wine ration difference between 5 and 50 gallons. The 5 gallon barrel will oxygenate the wine MUCH quicker than a 50 gallon barrel will. Also kit wines will improve slightly by the evaporation of wine and the wine will become 'thicker'. when this is not overdone, it can create a really nice mouthfeel and taste to the wine.

So, my advice, would be (and I will try to follow)... if you want to improve wine a barrel is a good way to do it, but one must be hyper-diligent in taking care of that wine while it rides in the barrel. Here is a list of things that must be done.

1. Keep a high sulphite level in the wine and re-sulphte every month that it is kept in the barrel. (this prevents hyper-oxygenation)

2. keep the barrel topped up every 2-3 weeks. Especially important in a dry climate like mine.

3. Do not over-age the wine in the barrel. If you are not getting enough oak from an older barrel add oak staves, do not age longer in that barrel.


And lastly, please understand these are merely my OPINIONS. I have no scientific data and this is pretty much from my personal experience. Hopefully this information can help others to avoid the problems I am having.

Cheers!
Ryan

 

[gc605]

Ryan:

The scientific data supports your conclusions--especially #2! The industry uses the book Wine Analysis and Production by Zoecklein et al. (along with a few others) that outline barrel aging.

While in the barrel, a small amount of oxygen will naturally enter the wine (no barrel is completely sealed off from the outside world), which is known as microoxygenation. It will add some pallet depth and complexity , but a topped barrel won't show the aldehyde-forward oxidized flavors of a sherry.

Oh, and be careful not to hit your wine with TOO much SO2 while aging--too much sulfur will bleach out color!

Best of luck!Edited by: gc605

 

[rshosted]

GC,

Thanks. I didn't know that about color; interesting. I'm sure my wines never hit above 150ppm So2, so I'm not too worried about it. I've just made a resolution, from now on, to not age my wines bulk or barrel for over 9-16 month (from start to bottle). Whereas before I would bulk age for a year at a time.....

Is that book you mention worth buying?

WOW! Just checked the price of that book: <b ="price">$113.98[/b]
Edited by: rshosted

 

[gc605]

oh yeah..the book is pricey! i'm a dirt-poor student, and i found mine on one of those discount textbook sites

WAP is definitely industry-oriented, but it's not a step-by-step production guide. Instead, it has chapters devoted to pH, TA, SO2, microbial activity, color, VA, Brix, etc...all things if you're dealing with a kit you probably won't need to worry too much about. However, if you want to start playing with your own fruit or if you're just really curious about analyzing your wine, it's THE bible. There's a lot of chemistry in there, but it's so clearly written that you don't need to worry about following along. The second half of the book is filled with lab procedures to test all those things in your wine, so to a home winemaker it probably isn't that useful.

 

[rshosted]

OK, GC. I decided to buy a copy of that book... here's to hoping it's a good one. In a month or two if someone comes across this, feel free to email to find out what I thought of this book.
-Ryan