I was wondering if the minimum contact time for stavin cubes is 8 weeks and you want to oak a wine with say 1oz of cubes but do not want to bulk age for 2 months could you then oak 2oz for a month and would it give you roughly the same results as 1oz for 2 months?
Oak amount
- Thread starter patc
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JimCook
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Seagrape,
Let taste be your guide instead of'rules' on the package of the cubes or a calendar date. If you are adding oak to help enhance the taste of the wine to match your pallete, then let the wine come into its own at its own pace, taste testing along the way. Think of it like stepping on an accelerator in your car - if you push the pedal you go faster and it's harder to make quick adjustments. Should you get the same oaking in half the time with twice as many cubes - sounds logical. Does it guarantee that the wine will be oaked sufficiently in one month - only your taste tests can find out.
- Jim
Let taste be your guide instead of'rules' on the package of the cubes or a calendar date. If you are adding oak to help enhance the taste of the wine to match your pallete, then let the wine come into its own at its own pace, taste testing along the way. Think of it like stepping on an accelerator in your car - if you push the pedal you go faster and it's harder to make quick adjustments. Should you get the same oaking in half the time with twice as many cubes - sounds logical. Does it guarantee that the wine will be oaked sufficiently in one month - only your taste tests can find out.
- Jim
Bartman
Senior Member
Based on his frequent admonition for PATIENCE, I would expect Tepe to be the main "enforcer" of taking your time, letting the wine age and blend with the oak flavors at its own pace, rather than "forcing" it with a lot of oak for a shorter period.
Tepe, do you have any "Impatience" citations handy? I think the fine should be two bottles of the offender's best stuff!
Bart
Tepe, do you have any "Impatience" citations handy? I think the fine should be two bottles of the offender's best stuff!
Bart
Seagrape let patience be your guide when it comes to making wine. Worry more about getting a well balanced wine in the bottle and then worry about your next wine. I have noticed lots of folks are rushing their wines out of the primary and into the secondary and then holding their breath so they can finish, bottle and start all over. I did that as well as first and then I tried something new, patience. I'll now let the wine sit in the primary until it slows down almost finishing and then rack to the secondary and let it sit on the fine lees for a couple of months before racking again, when and if, I need to clear the wine I'll let it sit for another couple of months. This seems to add a lot of complexity and mouthfeel to my wines that I was not getting.
My motto - Just cover the carboy and walk away.
VC
My motto - Just cover the carboy and walk away.
VC
JimCook
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Comparing surface area of oak cubes to volume of wine exposed, the following chart is a rough guideline for cube additions for a five gallon batch of wine...
104 cubes = 3 ounces = 5 gallon barrel effective rate
79 cubes = 2.3 ounces= 10 gallon barrel effective rate
63 cubes = 1.9 ounces = 15 gallon barrel effective rate
52 cubes = 1.5 ounces = 30 gallon barrel effective rate
41 cubes = 1.2 ounces = 60 gallon barrel effective rate
Most wineries will still oak wine in 60-gallon barrels, regardless of whether it's a Cabernet Sauvignon or a Pinot Noir. The type of oak used and contact time changes with the different varietals, however. Since European oaks tend to release their flavors slower than their American counterparts, they are generally the choice for lighter varietals like Pinot Noir.
End Oaking Flavor = Oak Type + Toast Level + Surface Area of Oak vs. Volume of Wine + Time on Oak/Extraction Rate
For home winemaking, if you can afford the time in the carboy, err on the lower side of chip/cube usage and taste test often to determine when the wine hits your flavor level.
Edit: Since there are so many commercial wineries in the world, they make for a great 'test lab' for home winemakers - if you're interested in what type of oak to use with what wine, look at the back of bottles at your local wine shop or check online reviews. The winery's web sites almost always detail specifically what oak and in what time/quantity they used for a particular varietal coming from a particular location.
Here are some examples:
Foxen Vineyards 2008 Santa Maria Valley Pinot Noir - 8 months French Oak
Melville Estates 2007 Pinot Noir Santa Rita Hills - ~8 months French Oak
Gary Farrell 2007 Pinot Noir Russian River Valley - 8 months French Oak
Louis Latour Pinot Noir Pommard 1er Cru - 10-12 months French Oak
Sokol Blosser 2007 Pinot Noir Dundee Hills - 16 months oaking
Chateau Moutin-Rothschild Bordeaux - 23-24 months French Oak
Shafer 2006 One Point Five Cabernet Sauvignon - 20 months (70% French, 30% American)
Wolf Blass 2007 Grey Label Cabernet Sauvignon - 18 months predominately French Oak (remainder American)
Bodegas Catena Zapata 2006 Catena Cabernet Sauvignon - 12 months 80% French/20% American Oak
- Jim
104 cubes = 3 ounces = 5 gallon barrel effective rate
79 cubes = 2.3 ounces= 10 gallon barrel effective rate
63 cubes = 1.9 ounces = 15 gallon barrel effective rate
52 cubes = 1.5 ounces = 30 gallon barrel effective rate
41 cubes = 1.2 ounces = 60 gallon barrel effective rate
Most wineries will still oak wine in 60-gallon barrels, regardless of whether it's a Cabernet Sauvignon or a Pinot Noir. The type of oak used and contact time changes with the different varietals, however. Since European oaks tend to release their flavors slower than their American counterparts, they are generally the choice for lighter varietals like Pinot Noir.
End Oaking Flavor = Oak Type + Toast Level + Surface Area of Oak vs. Volume of Wine + Time on Oak/Extraction Rate
For home winemaking, if you can afford the time in the carboy, err on the lower side of chip/cube usage and taste test often to determine when the wine hits your flavor level.
Edit: Since there are so many commercial wineries in the world, they make for a great 'test lab' for home winemakers - if you're interested in what type of oak to use with what wine, look at the back of bottles at your local wine shop or check online reviews. The winery's web sites almost always detail specifically what oak and in what time/quantity they used for a particular varietal coming from a particular location.
Here are some examples:
Foxen Vineyards 2008 Santa Maria Valley Pinot Noir - 8 months French Oak
Melville Estates 2007 Pinot Noir Santa Rita Hills - ~8 months French Oak
Gary Farrell 2007 Pinot Noir Russian River Valley - 8 months French Oak
Louis Latour Pinot Noir Pommard 1er Cru - 10-12 months French Oak
Sokol Blosser 2007 Pinot Noir Dundee Hills - 16 months oaking
Chateau Moutin-Rothschild Bordeaux - 23-24 months French Oak
Shafer 2006 One Point Five Cabernet Sauvignon - 20 months (70% French, 30% American)
Wolf Blass 2007 Grey Label Cabernet Sauvignon - 18 months predominately French Oak (remainder American)
Bodegas Catena Zapata 2006 Catena Cabernet Sauvignon - 12 months 80% French/20% American Oak
- Jim
I would think that personal taste more then anything else would be your guide for the amount of oak for your wine. However I would love to see something with best choice of oak for the different wines and styles. Right now I just decide what I want the end result to be and try to work in that direction when choosing oak. One of these days I may just make a great big batch of wine and split it into a bunch of gallon jugs with different oaks and see what happens. The taste testing sure would be fun!
VC
Nice chart Jim.
VC
Nice chart Jim.
