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bpaolini

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So, having made wine from kits, I thought I would step up to using grapes. I plan and am already thinking ahead to next fall. My goal is 10 lugs (360 lbs.) either of cab franc or a combination of grenache and syrah (60-40). Anyway, I've read in many places that to improve fruitiness and perhaps to helpfoster earlier drinkability it's a good idea to add some whole grapes to the fermenter before adding in the crushed. But even though I've seen that in many articles, etc, no one ever says how much! What is the proportion of what should go in the primary fermenter uncrushed along with the rest?
Thanks for the advice.
Bob
 
Ive never heard of this and cant see what that would do. If they are not crushed at all I dont think they can help with anything as I dont think the enzymes can get in there.
 
The practice is used in grapes fairly often. That is why the upsurge of just destemmers that don't crush. The idea is that the whole berries give up thier goodies slower resulting in a lower fermentation temperature to preserve the delicate flavors and esters.


I'm not sure how much it would benefit a small batch like you are speaking of. I think you might want to begin with the basics and leave the fancy methods until you are sure of the basic process.
 
There you go, you learn something new everyday!!!
smiley32.gif
 
Thanks for the reply. I'll keep trying to find suggested relationship between the two. Even if you're right about the quantity I still want to know why I can't seem to find that answer.
 
Since you aren't convinced by me alone here is a reference to the method that gives some numbers. This reference was for Pinot Noit an uses intact clusters.


It is common to add a proportion of whole clusters (uncrushed, with stems intact). Rates typically vary in the range 0-50% but the most common rates used are 10-30%. Whole berries ferment slower and tend to maintain lower temperatures, which potentially preserve/increase fresh fruit aromas. Whole clusters also enhance spicy (vanilla, clove and cinnamon) characters, and give softer/smoother tannins. The inclusion of whole clusters can also assist in drainage through the cap resulting in better structural and aroma/flavour extraction.


Also look up Whole Berry Fermentation . You also may want to look up carbonic maceration.

<H4>Carbonic maceration</H4>Some Pinot Noirs are fermented with limited carbonic maceration. This process involves placing the whole grapes in a tank which is filled with carbon dioxide (to prevent oxygen contact). The enzymes present in the grapes then convert sugar to ethanol up to about 2% abv, after which pressing takes place and the fermentation is completed with yeast.

When a significant factor in making Pinot, whole berries or grape bunches (10-20% for minimal effects, or 30-40% for a more overt effect) may be included in the must. The effect of carbonic maceration is to give a softer wine (less acidity and tannin), with a more fruity (and sometimes quoted spicy, e.g. cinnamon) character.




Again I say you are treading on advanced techniques and might want to wait until you have the basics. Kind of like wanting to make a rocket to the moon after flying a little solid booster model rocket.
 
I meant no disrespect in my reply. I was only looking to learn more about it. You've answered my question. I find it real interesting and always want to look and learn. Thanks for taking the time and making the effort to help find the answer.

Bob
 

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