WineXpert Moscato - with some tampering ;-)

[starsfan]

Ok, so I am gathering thoughts and preparing to kick off my second wine kit...and this one is going to be a double batch of WineXpert's Moscato!

So, my first kit, I made the Australian shiraz, and did it straight out of the box without tweaking it. This time however, I am going to be bold, and be brave and get a little creative!

So, I purchased 2 of the WE moscato kits, and 3 cans of the Vinters Harvest Peach Puree (3lbs 1 oz can's)

Not sure if I will need all three cans, or possibly more? I am wanting the peach to be forward, but not dominating. not sure how the best way to do this is. start kit one with the 3 cans, and the second kit with none, taste, and then add more to kit 2 if desired??? not sure what the best plan would be here.

Anyway...

I also want a subtle but recongnizable vanilla...so I ordered some whole vanilla beans from Madagascar. I am getting 10 beans, but I know I do not need that many. Not sure where to start there either. a whole bean? 3 beans? just drop it whole in the fermenter or shave it up a bit???

I am considering dropping in a few bananas as well. Nothing that I would want to be really forward, but just a hint. do not want it to distract from or compete with the peach, as that is the flavor I most want coming through in this batch.

Another thought, was to throw a couple sticks of cinnamon in the bucket as well....but then I am thinking about finished color of the wine, and not sure if cinnamon will dirty up my color or not???

I have even thought about adding a touch of honey....these all seem to be things that I think would make a nice layered complexity for the pallet.

So here is where im going to ask you guys (the real wine makers and drinkers) to discuss thoughts, and ideas...and help me think of things that maybe I am not thinking of myself.


Also, I plan to cut 1 gallon of water out of what the kit calls for (so 2 gallons since its 2 kits total for a double batch) to boost the ABV a bit (I know the additions will do that as well) and to add to the flavor. specially since the 3 peach cans will be adding liquid volume as well.

I am hoping to pitch this after my vanilla beans arrive and I have a good solid plan outlined here. ;-)

All comments and suggestions are very welcomed and appreciated!

Thanks,
Steve

 

[starsfan]

Over 40 views, and no input? IM HURT! LOL

seriously though, would love a few folks to get involved with this build thread with me. Very excited to get this bubbling in the bucket! ;-)

 

[Mismost]

IF it was me on my second batch and first just started ticking.....

Think I'd run one pretty straight with maybe just the vanilla. The second one I'd open up a bit with the peach....one can. Maybe start a peach with the other two cans.

I have done an all banana wine and used bananas in several other batches. They add some body. But even that all banana wine did not taste like bananas....it is a nice dry white wine. Yeah, no banana flavor...surprised me too!

Oh...use some of those beans in a jar of vodka for your own homemade extract.

That's my opinion....add five bucks to it and you can get a free Starbucks coffee! But, I do admire your enthusiasm starsfan!

 

[sour_grapes]

I think I would wait until after secondary. Then I would split the batches in twain, and add one or two vanilla beans to half the batch. After a number of weeks, steal a taste. If the vanilla is too strong, you can blend back to "okay." If it is too weak, you can add more to both batches. If it is just right, you can add the same amount to the second batch as you did to the first!

 

[thecrewking]

Agreed about the banana...its not like using a banana in a smoothie.

I'd make small adjustments. The moscato kits I've made just adding some sugar to boost the abv and a box of golden raisins for more body. Bottles always running low with those two basic adjustments.

That being said I'm moving away from country fruit type wines and more toward mainly kits and grapes when I can get them.

Adding peach sounds interesting.

IF it was me on my second batch and first just started ticking.....

Think I'd run one pretty straight with maybe just the vanilla. The second one I'd open up a bit with the peach....one can. Maybe start a peach with the other two cans.

I have done an all banana wine and used bananas in several other batches. They add some body. But even that all banana wine did not taste like bananas....it is a nice dry white wine. Yeah, no banana flavor...surprised me too!

Oh...use some of those beans in a jar of vodka for your own homemade extract.

That's my opinion....add five bucks to it and you can get a free Starbucks coffee! But, I do admire your enthusiasm starsfan!

 

[bkisel]

Don't know if this will help... I did an RJS Riesling and tweaked with regular store bought canned peaches in the secondary. Came out very nice with just a hint of peach smell and taste.

 

[starsfan]

Much appreciate the feedback and suggestions! still mulling over what I want to do (or rather how I want to do it!) A friend of mine made the same WE moscato kit that I am making, and he also added peaches (he didn't add vanilla as I plan to do)...and according to him, it came out amazing. I say according to him, because he is being stingy and won't share! LOL

One difference is, he used fresh picked peaches from a local orchard, as where I am using the Vinters Harvest canned peach puree.

Also, question....

if I were to add a couple sticks of Cinnamon to the primary....do you think it would have an adverse affect on the color when finished??? Anyone here ever use cinnamon in a white before?

Thanks,
Steve

 

[joeswine]

In the mix

using extracts in wines has been around for centuries just be careful to use small amounts to the base you can always add more but you can't take it out .Madagascar beans are the best a little goes a long way ,really!Cinnamon is another type that will impart not only flavor but could tint the wine ,mostly used in reds for that reason and usually for holiday style wines.

 

[bkisel]

I've used a cinnamon stick, like you see on Joe's Zesting Table, for an Apple wine that I recently finished. I used it after fermentation during a very short bulk aging. Any coloring or flavor/zesting change it made was just to subtle for me to discern. The back sweetening with brown sugar, honey and apple juice concentrate did however appear to darken the color ever so slightly.

 

[Mismost]

I used cinnamon in my banana wine...three sticks in the primary...it was very subtle tasting. A Christmas wine.

Bet Joe's extracted cinnamon would have a more powerful effect.

I need to clean some Mason jars and make some of Joe's Extracts for my "tool box". (was working on an Apple Cider yesterday and would have loved to have had some "tools" on hand to tweak it).

 

[heatherd]

My thoughts would be to limit to one tweak per batch. Just peach in one and just vanilla in the other.

 

[joeswine]

In the mix

These extracts can be fun or a desire you first need to learn what values they have in your process, adding the cinnamon sticks to everclear is where its at or vanilla,while adding it to vodka is a very settle way to add kick to the mix. But the more direct enhancements to wine is different, using ZEST it's great for whites, using cinnamon for fall wines is great, or a cranberry MALBEC,or a sangria,or a fall mull wine with lemon and Cinnamon and cloves,think just don't add..............BUT HAVE A BALL.....ARE WE HAVING FUN YET? WITH OUR CHEAP KITS? THIS WAS A VINTNERS KIT I ADDED THE POMEGRANATES TO YOU COULD DO THE SAME WITH THESE KITS.

 

[mike_d]

You're talking about adding five different additions to only your second wine. I'm still rather green as a winemaker, but am an experienced brewer, and often caution novice brewers against making the same mistake.

Since you haven't yet made this kit at all, I would suggest having a portion as a control batch, and leave it untouched. Beyond that, if you really want to try all 5 additions, consider splitting your 12 gallons into 6 different fermenters and adding one addition per fermenter. When it's all completed, you can taste what each addition did to the wine, and start blending small amounts until you have something you're happy with.

I strongly discourage just adding all of those things to one batch.

 

[joeswine]

in the mix

Start small learn the process and move on from there

 

[starsfan]

I appreciate all the advise and cautions! I really do. with that being said, I have opted out of using Cinnamon, and I have ALMOST talked myself out of the banana. The 2 things I am certain on, are the peach, and the vanilla. I just don't see the point not at least trying to achieve what it is I want to taste in my head. Sure, it could turn out to be a complete bust and I could be pouring out 12 gallons of terrible wine....but, it could be worse. I could end up saying "Man, I really wish I had tried achieving what it was I was wanting out of the wine." if I wanted a straight up moscato, I could go grab a bottle off of a shelf somewhere. I want something that is Moscato, but that is MY mascato...and I truly believe that it could be something good. but of course...I am to green to accomplish that on my own so that is why I turn to you guys! My wine making family (I hope!) ;-)

So I really do hear all the thoughts and comments...but I really do not want to make 2 separate batches of wine. I want to go for broke, and make a double batch of the same thing (trying to achieve my goals of a distinguishable flavor of peach, with a definite hint of vanilla. Those are my two main goals in this Moscato experience and I would love thoughts on how people with more experience with me, would accomplish those goals.

I get that im jumping in the deep end...and im prepared for the worst...but half the fun is in the trying! ;-)

thanks everyone, I appreciate the feedback and participation SO MUCH!

Steve

 

[mike_d]

Can I at least talk you into ranking off just a gallon before adding the other stuff? Having said that, I do admire you taking the time to explain your thoughts about your project, and acknowledging the potential for failure. Many rookies wouldn't even respond again after someone was critical of their idea. You have my respect for that.

Peach is a difficult flavor to achieve in beer, as it gets lost easily. But with three cans already on hand, I think you should have enough. As for the vanilla, it's a powerful flavor, and I strongly recommend others' idea of making an extract, and adding in small amounts until you're satisfied.

 

[starsfan]

Can I at least talk you into ranking off just a gallon before adding the other stuff? Having said that, I do admire you taking the time to explain your thoughts about your project, and acknowledging the potential for failure. Many rookies wouldn't even respond again after someone was critical of their idea. You have my respect for that.

Peach is a difficult flavor to achieve in beer, as it gets lost easily. But with three cans already on hand, I think you should have enough. As for the vanilla, it's a powerful flavor, and I strongly recommend others' idea of making an extract, and adding in small amounts until you're satisfied.

I will STRONGLY consider this! ;-) I appreciate you hearing me out. I get that im new...and I have a LOT to learn. but I anticipate a lot of dollars and carboys are in my future so I will have fun learning one batch at a time (or double batch as it may be!) ;-)

Thanks,
Steve

 

[starsfan]

Ok so a question before I kick of this kit/double batch!

Got my Madagascar vanilla beans in today. I am going to take the advise I received and only use half a bean in the primary, and sample after things progress to see if it needs more or if half a bean did the trick!

So, my question is....is their any other yeast you would recommended replacing with the yeast in the kit that would improve the fruitiness of the wine? Or would you just stick with what's in the box?

I will be pitching this tomorrow afternoon or Saturday morning! Very excited!

Thanks,
Steve

 

[joeswine]

Any champagne yeast

 

[starsfan]

So, as had been suggested, I decided to make one kit altered with the peach and vanilla and leave the second kit untouched. Actually, I didn't even start the second kit.

But, I am having an issue already that I hope to get resolved today. Last night, about 11pm, I was out in my building putting together the first kit. went to get a temp before pitching yeast and it was at roughly 67 degrees. It is cold outside, but I didn't think it would be a problem in my building but it was. I put my brew belt on the bucket, and placed a small heater on the table about a foot and a half away from the bucket and left it until this morning. Surely the brew belt would bring it up to temp right? WRONG! I went out about 9am this morning and I was still at roughly 67 degrees!!! so everything is ready for the yeast except the temp and im pretty limited in my options (cant bring the wine in the house, so I have to make it work out in the building one way or the other).

Very frustrating!

I'll be honest at the expense of embarrassing myself...I am struggling on understanding how to read the hydrometer and I do not know why. it seems like it should be pretty simple but I find I just stare at it and am mentally blank as to knowing what its telling me. For this reason, I made a video of my hydrometer in hopes you kind folks can look at it and help me understand what I'm looking at! (very embarrassing as I feel this is elementary to this process).

Ok, so what I did to the kit was, I added 1 can of the peach puree, and 2 cups of sugar that I dissolved in a little bit of water. I also threw in 1/2 a vanilla bean. that's pretty much it.

Thoughts, comments....greatly appreciated!

Steve

(click the image below for the video)