Mosti Mondiale MM AJ Shiraz not clearing

[Milwood]

Help! My first Mosti kit is a MM AJ Shiraz that I ordered from George back in the beginning of March. I have followed the directions to a tee but the wine is not clearing. I added the K-Sorbate, Siligel and Liquigel on the 8th of April. You can still see a lot of particulate suspended in the wine. It did drop a lot of sediment after the clarifiers were added so I decided to rack the wine once more. I guess my question is should I just give it a few more weeks and see what happens or is it ok to treat it with SuperKleer? I realize that I am only 3 weeks out from adding the clarifiers but all of the other kits I have done have cleared fairly quickly. Any suggestions?

 

[swillologist]

Milwood have you degassed your wine? This will help the particulate drop.

 

[Wade E]

Degassing and temp play a big role in a wine clearing as do temps when this kit was delivered. Were the fining agents frozen at all when the kit was delivered? What were and are the temps of the wine? While using a fining agent you should keep the temp between 68*-74*. Did you degas the wine and what tool did you use to do this as the spoon doesnt do a good job by itself.

 

[joeswine]

it would seem to me that you need to be a little more patient and allow more time if necessary if it came to you in a frozen state self,add supperklear and let it set,some times reds need awhile to setup,but it will clear/let time take its course and degass the best you can,stir the h#$L out of it and then add finding agent ,,walk away look at it in a month///

 

[Milwood]

Thanks for the replies. I did degas by first using the Fizz-X drill mounted stirrer and then the brake bleeder over a 2 day period. I am not aware of the kit being frozen before it got to me. During the clearing stage it was kept in the mid 60's. I think I am just being impatient so I will let it sit for a month or so and then check it again. If it doesn't look clear I may try the SuperKleer. I should add that the wine tastes far better at this point than any wine I have made to date. Thanks again.

 

[PolishWineP]

Time is your friend. Be sure you're wine is degassed. An extra racking or 3 won't hurt it. After you rack it, (I'm guessing you haven't racked it off of the clearing agent yet) you may want to put it away and don't look at it for several weeks. Some of the clearing agents don't work so well after being frozen.

 

[grapeman]

I think what you are experiencing is the superb quality of the Mosti All Juice. It has a higher percent of solids than kits made with concentrates. You will find that many red wines made from grapes not concentrate(which this is basically) take a while to clear because of these solids. The wine they make is usually outstanding. Good luck with it and you can always use the Super Kleer if needed.

 

[Wade E]

I agree with Applemans post about the solids but also most add that mid 60's is a tad chilly for a fining agent to work properly. Id try getting to high 60's to low or mid 70's. Fining agents work better around 74* while clearing naturally works much better in much lower temps.

Edited by: wade

 

[Milwood]

Okay. I just checked the temp and it is at 60 F. Maybe that is too cold. I guess I am not clear on the difference between fining and clearing. I will bring the carboy from the cellar into a basement room where the temp will be able to raise a few degrees. I had always heard that wines will clear better at lower temps but I guess I was misinformed.

 

[Wade E]

That is definitely too cold for clearing agent to work properly. Wines will clear on their own but will take a decent amount of time compared to using a fining agent. Cooler temps will make it clear faster if not using a fining agent but when using a fining agent and at the temp you are at you will almost make the fining agent go dormant and thats why instructions say to keep the temps up during all these stages. Once it is degassed and cleared you can lower the temps and that will be good for the wine to age whether in a bottle or in bulk but those temps should also be as stable as can be. Remember stable temps are more important then cooler temps.

 

[joeswine]

IF THAT IS THE CASE AND I CAN,T SEE REDS BEING THAT DENCE AND IF FINDING HASN,T WORKED THEN ADD PETIN EMZYM TO THE MIX IT WILL AID IN THE CLEARRING OF THE WINE WITH OUT ANYSIDE EFFECTS THAT I'AM AWARE OF<USED THIS TECHNIC WITH FRUIT WINES AND WINES WITH HEAVY SUGAR CONTENTS <USUALLY WORKS>

 

[K&GB]

Millwood,


I had the same experience with my first few kits this past fall. After fermentation I added the clarifier and took the carboys out to the garage where the temps stayed around 55-60F. I did this with a WE viognier that used isinglass for a clarifier and a MM Alljuice sangiovese that used the liquigel and siligel combo. Neither one cleared after 10 days outside.I moved the viognier back inside the house and it cleared over the next couple of weeks. I wound up using Super Kleer on the sangiovese. However, for my next MM Alljuice kit, I kept the carboy inside the house during the clearing stage and it cleared very quickly.

 

[PeterZ]

A number of factors go into the rate of settling. The factors that concern us are the size of the particles, the density of the particles, and the density of the liquid.


The particles are denser that the liquid - we know this because they settle rather than floating. The greater the difference between the density of the particles and the density of the liquid the faster the particles will settle. Colder liquids are denser (water is densest at 4C, which is why ice floats), so particles will settle slower in colder liquid.


Larger particles settle faster than smaller particles. Clarifying agents work by grabbing onto lots of little particles and creating bigger particles out of them. Ths will also happen naturally, but at a much slower rate, and the attractive forces are much weaker without the clarifier.


When we add the clarifier we stir it in. This allows it to come into contact with the solids, which stick to the clarifier, forming larger particles. If we were to stir wine that did not get a clarifier, we would break apart particles that have stuck together, because stirring imparts too much energy for the weak attraction.


What helps with natural (no clarifying agent) clarification is regular variations in temperature. The temp variation sets up gentle convection currents in the carboy, allowing the particles to gently bump into each other and stick together. They get bigger and settle faster.

 

[Jack on Rainy]

Love your posts, PeterZ! But you didn't mentionthe effects of Brownian motion on floculation!

Edited by: Jack on Rainy

 

[JWMINNESOTA]

Jack, that has always been my explanation for the random useless memories I can recall....sounds better than saying older age memory loss!

 

[PeterZ]

Jack,


Brownian motion is the reason why very small particles don't settle. It is also a factor in slowing the settling of the smaller than visible particles, which is why you can bottle a wine that looks clear and get sediment six months later.


Once you get the particles past a certain size through natural agglomeration or the use of a fining agent, Brownian motion is too weak to prevent settling.

 

[Jack on Rainy]

Like I said, love your posts! It would be fun toshare some wine some time.