Massive Rhubarb Plant

[wildhair]

Alrighty then - on the calcium carbonate & how to use it. If you go back to post #61 on page 4 - I mentioned testing the ph BEFORE adding the yeast. Here's the highlight -

Once you get that 1.090 reading - THEN add the rest of the ingredients EXCEPT the yeast. Stir it all up, check the ph. If it's less then 3 - add calcium carbonate @ 1/2 t per gallon to start. Wait about an hour, test ph again. If it's around 3.2 - 3.5 - you're good. Still low? Add another 1/2 t per gal, wait, test ph.
After 12 hrs +/- check the sg (around 1.090) and ph (3.2 - 3.5 ) again. If it's all good - add your yeast, cover with a towel and let the yeast do it's thing.
If you don't have a ph meter - just taste it. If it burns at the back of your throat - it's probably too acidic.

Attached is a collection of info from various sites focused on acidity - testing, increasing or reducing. You will need to get a ph meter. I have an acid testing kit, but personally - I find the ph meter easier to use and it tells me what I need to know. Also - I don't know that acid test kits detect oxalic acid.

I don't have my notes in front of me, but I recall the ph of my rhubarb was in the 2's as well. I used calcium carbonate to raise the # to about 3.2-ish before adding yeast. It is easier to adjust the ph of the must (the fruit/sugar mix) BEFORE fermentation than after. But I've done it both ways. So - imho - get a ph meter, learn to use it - you won't regret it.

I remembered this post when you said you could drink it fairly quickly. I sure like your take on it a lot better. Right away as compared to 7 years. Also, we're not French, nothing sophisticated about our pallets, at this point.

However, based on this informative post, we also got some of this calcium carbonate. Its sitting here, have no idea what to do with it.

And yes, totally hear you about the full rhubarb taste. That will be the next batch. Chopping and freezing for the next batch is in progress.

 

[wildhair]

Hi again. The acidity of the juice for me was pH 2. Hence the need for neutralizing the oxalic acid. Oxalic acid won't kill you, it has an very astringent mouth feel . if you taste it you'll know what I mean. I see that you are adding orange juice to your mix. I suppose that might cover up the oxalic. If you were to google 'French Rhubarb Wine’, you'll find a reference to a commercial producer of rhubarb wine in France. They mention on that web page that these wines are extremely delectable after 5 to 7 years. Apparently it is difficult to distinguish rhubarb from grape wine after such a period. I made a rhubarb wine this time last year. It is definitely not drinkable at this point. Although I have made an Aperol wine cocktail - blending Quince wine(60%), Rose Petal wine(35%) and Rhubarb wine(5%). For the spritz component I used a Sparkling Pear Cuvée(pears from my trees). I won myself a little prize with this wine cocktail at our local wild food festival. The rhubarb added the necessary tartness.

Not to contradict one who obviously has far more experience in winemaking, a much more sophisticated pallet than I AND the patience of a saint - but the rhubarb wine I racked yesterday was very drinkable. It was smooth, lightly sweet with full rhubarb taste & a dry finish. A little cloudy, but then so is ale. LOL All my 2017 Rhubarb Wine is but a memory - I will concede the last bottle was the smoothest. Waiting 5-7 years, tho? Not likely to happen in my house.

A couple other points - oxalic acid in high quantities can form kidney stones. Not fatal in the amounts found in food, but like most things - too much is not good. In rhubarb - particularly the BIG stalks - oxalic acid is likely the taste that some people find disagreeable. I try to pick the reddest and smaller stalks for rhubarb recipes - wine, jam and pie. They are tart & more tender - but still have that wonderful rhubarb flavor. I think the smaller stalks may have less oxalic acid - but that's just a guess based on my own taste tests. I have no empirical data to back that up.

 

[Wolfpup]

Once you get that 1.090 reading - THEN add the rest of the ingredients EXCEPT the yeast. Stir it all up, check the ph. If it's less then 3 - add calcium carbonate @ 1/2 t per gallon to start. Wait about an hour, test ph again. If it's around 3.2 - 3.5 - you're good. Still low? Add another 1/2 t per gal, wait, test ph.
After 12 hrs +/- check the sg (around 1.090) and ph (3.2 - 3.5 ) again. If it's all good - add your yeast, cover with a towel and let the yeast do it's thing.
If you don't have a ph meter - just taste it. If it burns at the back of your throat - it's probably too acidic.

So - imho - get a ph meter, learn to use it - you won't regret it.

Right, right. I do remember this. Hubby was not able to find any kind of PH testing thing when he did his supply run. He did find the calcium carbonate though. We are on the lookout for the ph meter. Reminded hubby this morning.

I did taste it and there was no burning in my throat. It was absolutely delicious. I could have bottled that up.

And of course, we were without an SG meter on the long weekend that the yeast went in so this was all left behind as we forged ahead.

What great information though. Unlike it being Greek at the time, starting to comprehend some Winese in there.

And thank you Venatorscribe, that is very interesting. I am going to try a batch of pure rhubarb next time. Like wildhair mentioned, my stalks are BIG so as you say probably a lot of this oxalic acid in there. I am patient and not a super big drinker (yet), can't say the same for hubby, but if it even smells odd, it will have the opportunity to sit on the shelf for another few years.

What do you do, booby trap it with little mouse traps. Maybe a lock and key that I hide. We'll figure it out.

Oh, and no orange juice was added to this batch but got a little creative with the ingredients: 13 lbs of rhubarb, 50 oz of white grape concentrate, 1 lb of strawberries, half a pound of raspberries and a BIG chunk of ginger.

Time for a coffee and will get the next meter reading.

 

[Wolfpup]

Following along here...good read...

I believe this is the recipe, is that correct?
So no pH/acid adjustments so far?

You are correct, that's it.

As meadmaker said though, recipes are just a guideline. Thought it would be something I could follow word for word but bahhh, that didn't happen. So yes, this is the "guideline" we are following.

 

[wildhair]

You can still test the ph when you get the meter and lower the acidity with your calcium carbonate if needed. And you will use the ph meter on every future batch.

Part of the reason wine "recipes" are guidelines is that the main component - the fruit - can vary so much in taste, ripeness, natural sugars and acidity. Temperature matters, the type of yeast matters, the minerals in your water matter & your own personal taste buds matter. This is why no one can say - " add X amount of sugar and you will get an sg of 1.090." Or "add X amount of calcium carbonate to get a ph of 3.2" . There are simply too many variables - it is NOT black & white. It's not like making a batch of cookies.

Wine - at this stage - is a living & unique thing. So it becomes important to know what all the different chemicals (and steps) are for and what they do - so you can figure out how to get the best wine from any batch or fruit. The more you understand the components and how they work together, the easier it will get and the more fun "tweaking" and personalizing your wine becomes. And the less you worry about screwing it up.

I am very much a novice at this adventure - but the many, many knowledgeable folks here have really helped me along the learning curve...........and I still have a looooong way to go. You will also find some contradictory information & replies here. That's OK - it just means there is probably more than 1 way to make a good wine.

 

[Wolfpup]

Ha ha, you a novice wildhair? Me thinks not, you guys are like professors. Hmmm… what does that make me, maybe like a fetus in the first trimester?

Very nice, I get the cookie analogy. I learned to make cookies (well any baking) by following a recipe exactly. Have always been a pretty good cook but my baking always failed until I was told to measure and follow EXACTLY. That's what I thought would happen when meadmaker said grab a recipe and follow it. But two very different things. I like that you pointed that out. It really resonates based on my experiences.

 

[meadmaker1]

MY TURN.
How did yu do that, @Stressbaby
The red "this" thing link.

 

[Wolfpup]

Ha ha, I could answer that. But we'll let stressbaby provide the guiding instructions.

Just waiting for the meter reading picture to download.

 

[Wolfpup]

Here's this mornings' reading:



Correct me if I'm wrong but we're going down about 3 marker points a day. So one'ish more point and it will hit that magical big number 1.000 and this is what I am looking for?

So when hubby gets home tonight with the littler'ish bottles, we might be able to transfer everything into them?

And sorry, there are bubbles but I waited for a while, spun and tapped and they just kept appearing. It seems pretty active still.

 

[meadmaker1]

To get batches to last longer, start more batches.
If you are lucky enough to save one a year or so you will likely discover the benifit, this helps the waiting game.

 

[meadmaker1]

Here's this mornings' reading:

View attachment 48963

Correct me if I'm wrong but we're going down about 3 marker points a day. So one'ish more point and it will hit that magical big number 1.000 and this is what I am looking for?

So when hubby gets home tonight with the littler'ish bottles, we might be able to transfer everything into them?

And sorry, there are bubbles but I waited for a while, spun and tapped and they just kept appearing. It seems pretty active still.

Yes you are in the rack to secondary zone.

 

[Stressbaby]

My wine acid elevator speech...I'm simplifying a bit here, but I think this largely works...

pH governs the micro-biologic climate - in other words, pH is what must be in range for yeast and MLB to ferment and how much SO2 you need to keep other stuff from contaminating your wine.

TA is titratable acidity as tartaric. It is not just tartaric but all acids (including oxalic) expressed as tartaric. You can theoretically measure TA as malic or as citric as well, but convention is tartaric. TA is what governs taste. The two tend to move in the same direction but not always. As an example, I had two whites last year, post ferment one had TA 9 and pH 3.4, and the other TA 10 and pH 2.7.

TA is linear; you can add acid and get a predictable linear increase in TA. pH is logarithmic and is affected by all sorts of buffers and other stuff. You cannot get the same predictable changes with acid additions.

Same with calcium or potassium (bi)carbonate. TA linear, pH non-linear. And 1/2 tsp/gal calcium carbonate addition can cause you to overshoot. My final adjustments are more like 1/4tsp/gal or less. Two other quick points - calcium carbonate requires special care post-ferment so most people use potassium carbonate post-ferment and calcium pre-ferment. Also, calcium salt has less effect on pH than the potassium salt so if your pH is already relatively high, but you need to bring the TA down, calcium salt may still be the one to use.

tl;dr - TA is taste, pH is bug climate, measure both.

 

[Wolfpup]

Oh my, that's not the answer I would have given. I would have gone on about hyperlinks. Pheew, glad I left that one to Stressbaby.

Great information.

 

[Wolfpup]

Meadmaker, what does the primary zone mean? I know rack means put it in the carboy right?

 

[meadmaker1]

I had to edit.
I ment secondary.
Rack to carboy any time now.

 

[Wolfpup]

Woo hoo, so it's do the right things!

We will "rack" this evening.

 

[meadmaker1]

Secondary vs primary play on words.
Primary could be thought of as the more critical stage.
This is where you will make this yours. Adjusting acid, adding stabilizers, sweetening, and oaking ect.

 

[meadmaker1]

That point is tricky to explain here. Ignore it.

 

[Wolfpup]

Secondary vs primary play on words.
Primary could be thought of as the more critical stage.
This is where you will make this yours. Adjusting acid, adding stabilizers, sweetening, and oaking ect.

So the primary will come later. Acids, stabilizers, oaking, oh boy. And more sugar if necessary, ok. And you will let me know when to do that?

 

[meadmaker1]

I wish I could delete that rambling
Let's stay on track. You are ready for secondary and first stages of finishing.
Yes we will discus finishing steps as the time comes