Kmeta question

[muskie003]

I posted a thread a while back about some bacteria on my wine. you guys helped me figure out it was a mycoderma, and with a little Kmeta and bottling it turned out pretty good. its only six months old so it still has a "young" taste to it, but overall i'm pleased with the result.

now here is the question. I started three new batches in October, and one of them already has the mycoderma on it. I added Kmeta (1/4 tsp per 6 gal) on November 2 as a precaution after I noticed it on my spring batch. it was on November 23, just 21 days later I noticed it in the carboy again. fearing the worst and realizing I couldn't really make it worse than losing the batch completely, I added another 1/4 tsp Kmeta. now about 15 days later, its still there (or has reemerged). I guess the question is how much is too much with the Kmeta. I hate to keep throwing it in, and I have no kit to test sulfite. ive been doing this with my dad for years and never had a problem, now I've had it in two consecutive batches.

all the info I read on mycoderma says its usually caused from airspace between the top of the wine and the stopper/air lock or the stopper isnt properly seated. I can tell you this...my stopper is wedged in there good and the airlock is sealed tight and there is very, very little air space in the container.

anyone have thoughts? at this point my best guess is just to add some more Kmeta. whats it going to hurt at this point if im in danger of losing the batch?

 

[dralarms]

You need to get a test kit. No one can tell you how much is too much without some readings.

Also, after the batch is done, clean all your equipment with a solution of 3 tbl kmeta to 1 gallon water. Or (I hate to say this) bleach and then rinse well and let air out and then before using again rinse with kmeta solution before using it

 

[muskie003]

I don't really know much about the test kits. not sure I can find one locally (Columbus, oh) and don't think I got enough time to get one shipped if i'm noticing this bacteria again.

is there a better test than another one?

any recommendations?

 

[dralarms]

Im not sure what mycoderma is but you should not add that much kmeta with some way to test the ppm.

 

[dralarms]

Mycoderma is a wild surface yeast which causes wine spoilage by consuming alcohol while producing some acetic acid (vinegar acid). It first appears as small white spots on the liquid surface and generally is an indication that too much air is reaching the wine. Given continued access to air, these spots will grow until they cover the entire liquid surface with film and eventually will cause the wine to be undrinkable. If noticed early enough, mycoderma can be treated with sulfite so that spoilage is stopped and the wine can be recovered. To do this, we recommend the following three steps. For each 5 gal. of wine: 1. Remove physically as much of the film as possible using a small spoon or gravy baster. Discard any wine removed with the film. Allow any particles which fall down into the wine to settle to the bottom of the container. This may take a day or so. 2. Prepare a 5 gal. glass carboy as a receiving container. Make sure it is clean and thoroughly rinsed. Wet the inside of the carboy with stock sulfite solution (made according instructions on the package label) and place 1/4 measuring teaspoon dry sulfite crystals in the carboy bottom. Siphon the mycoderma infected wine into the carboy, being careful to leave all sediments behind in the infected container. If the wine still contains any solids which have not settled, the mycoderma particles can be removed by straining through several layers of fine cloth in a funnel. When the receiving carboy is about half full, add a second 1/4 measuring teaspoon of dry sulfite crystals and continue with the siphoning and/or straining. When the carboy has been filled to at least the base of the neck or a little higher, add a final 1/4 teaspoon of sulfite crystals. Extra wine may be necessary to fill the carboy properly. Close the carboy with a fermentation lock or well sulfited cork. The above procedure will have added 3/4 level measuring teaspoons of dry sulfite crystals to the wine and should cure the problem. Be sure the carboy(s) are kept full and sealed until the wine is siphoned off for bottlingere, hope this helps

 

[dralarms]

Sounds like too much air and too much surface area.

 

[WVMountaineerJack]

Dont use bleach, Starsan is safer for your equipment. If you keep getting an infection you are not cleaning up good enough. Also some newbies think anything floating around on top of their wine is myco, sometimes its just stuff floating around. Have you searched the web for pics of what real myco infection looks like? WVMJ

 

[richmke]

And I have been trying for months to get my mother of vinegar to kick into high gear. For my first kit, I made a cheap white wine that I am trying to turn into vinegar.

 

[muskie003]

all the pictures ive seen of microderma look exactly like what I have on the surface of my wine. ive already done the process of physically removing the solids and racking into another disinfected container with the Kmeta once (twice if you count the time I went from the bucket to the glass). I really don't want to use bleach. ive used starsan on all my equipment and feel like I was very very careful about making sure everything was sterile. and there is no way air is getting into this jug and there is minimal air space between the stopper and wine. I really can't think of anything I did wrong that would have caused this.

but it sounds like the steps I took were the correct ones, I just need to get a sulfite kit to test my levels and see where i'm at to determine if I can add more Kmeta.

 

[WVMountaineerJack]

Actually, you dont need a test kit, you can add a little more if you keep getting this problem, its your wine and you are not selling it at a store so if you add a big more than normal because you need it you gotta do what you gotta do. We need to figure out what is going on. One annoying thing can be the actual airlock itself. When they are formed a little ridge of plastic on each side can make a small channel thru your bung and let air in, the fermenting wine can still push CO2 out of the airlock so it looks like its working really good, but when the CO2 stops blowing off that little channel can let air in. We take a razor blade and slice the little bit of rough plastic off at the seam just to be sure. If thats not an issue I suggest you stop drinking straight from the jug and use a glass instead WVMJ

 

[muskie003]

without even looking at one I know exactly what u are talking about when you say the ridge on the airlock. never thought about that but that's a pretty good idea to shave em off.

I'm on the same page as you with adding the Kmeta. whats it gonna hurt as this point? if I don't do something I'm certainly gonna lose it.