I've talked to the only vineyard and winery in Alabama that grows and makes wine with them. They tell me not to listen to people that say not to do it, they do it and they make some fine merlot, cabernet, syrah, sylvaner, and others. They told me to stay away from ones that are really thin skined. they grow some of them, but they say they are high maintenance. They are called Jules j Berta, they are small and only sell out of their gift shop but their stuff is good. Any way what are some good viniferas that have thicker skin? ---------------"Theres many a slip twixt the cup and the lip."