How much sugar for 1 gallon

[TorontoPaul]

Hi, did you sterilize all your equipment? Did you do all the fermenting in these small bottles or did you use a primary? Why not use air locks? They are cheap! I see from your picture, that some of the must ran down the side of your bottles? Did you clean and re sterilize them? Did you sulfite your must to kill any nasties before you added yeast? Every time you add something to your must (sugar?) you introduce air/contaminants. Any of them can spoil your wine. How long have they been fermenting? It is possible that you are smelling normal fermentation, and your wine is just too young, and still actively fermenting.

Your methods make it nearly impossible for anyone to give you sound advice. Without better note keeping and procedures, and attention to cleanliness, I'm thinking it will be difficult to get anything but poor tasting wine.

Sterilize them with what?

What kind of sulfite?

If i need more chemicals than why bother making wine if im going to spend so much in equipment. I was told balloons are fine. I dont have a wine store on every corner where i live and im not sure if they can fit all different sizes. I will get some when i have money.

If im doing everything wrong then give me a step by step guide for doing that is easy to understand.

 

[PierreR]

http://mpesgens.home.xs4all.nl/thwp/download/thwb.pdf

 

[wineforfun]

What do you mean jet fuel? According to you guys its not much sugar. I doubt I will even have 10% abv. I tasted the wine and I barely taste any alcohol in it.

How do I balance or measure the acid?

Welchs juice is pure juice.

What do you mean jet fuel?
You made the comment early on you wanted "the most alcohol possible", that is what I was referring to, jet fuel wise.

According to you guys its not much sugar. I doubt I will even have 10% abv.
Way too hard to tell without knowing what your hydrometer readings were to begin with and end with. It's nothing more than an educated guess.

How do I balance or measure the acid?
You need an acid tester to measure for acid.

Welchs juice is pure juice.
Welchs juice is not pure juice, if you are talking about Welchs in the 64oz./96oz. containers bought in the store. Those have been reconstituted with water.
The only way to get "pure" Welchs juice would be to buy it in the 12oz. concentrated tubes.



Also, read Pierre's link above, it will be very useful information for you.

 

[BernardSmith]

TorontoPaul, two quick comments - I have never used Welchs' products so this is just a thought -but the specific gravity figures you are getting from the juice seem off. I would expect fruit juices to all be around 1.050 (wine grapes are grown so that they have a far higher sugar content ) but the commercial juices you refer to ought - I think - to have far more sugar in them than your reading suggests - I could be wrong...
The other thing is that once you start fermenting the liquid will contain carbon dioxide gas (this is because yeast produces that gas as a byproduct of fermentation. That gas is dissolved in the liquid, but if you add any kinds of particles (sugar , for example) or powder to the fermenting wine that gas will collect at the surface of those particles and will have enough energy to create a volcano of liquid. Anything you add to your carboys really needs to be dissolved in water (or some other liquid) because that volcano can really blow (there are famous Youtube videos of kids putting menthos mints into bottles of coke... You are doing exactly the same thing when you add sugar in solid form to your fermenting wine... ).

 

[TorontoPaul]

Its been 16 days.

The bottles are ranging between 1.01 to 1.035 SG

Im getting impatient now.

What if i put the potassoum sorbate in now?

I dont want it to be too strong.

 

[PierreR]

Im not sure what advice to give you. In your first post in this thread, you said you want as much alcohol as possible, now you say you dont want it to strong.

I have no idea what your ABV is, as you have no idea what your starting SG was. So I/we have no idea if you need to let it finish fermenting (my recommendation) or if you can try to stop the fermentation.

16 days and you are impatient? Wine making isnt about how fast you can finish, but the quality of your end product. Some kits can be finished in 4 weeks, some others in 6 weeks. Some of us let our wine sit in bulk for a year, two or more for some wines.

You also mention, you dont want to spend more money... We are not talking hundreds of dollars. An air lock is like $3.00 a piece, campden tablets can be had for under $5.00, other items for similar cost. You say there arent wine supply stores on every corner, maybe not, but you are in toronto, there are a lot of shops. If travel is an issue, they mail order everything.

I advise against adding the sorbate. I advise you let it ferment out to finish. As you took no steps to sterilize anything, and are continually exposing the wine to air, and other contaminants (sugar additions?) I advise you to take this batch as a learning experience. Slow down on the next batch, do it by the book (I provided you a step by step) Stearilize, measure, take notes, allow the wine the time to do its thing, sit back, read and enjoy the process. We all wanted to rush at first, hell I started when I was 17 as a cheap source of alcohol. I quickly learned that it tasted like crap if I didn't do it right, clean, and with patience.

I'm not trying to discourage you by any means, I want you to succeed, and have fun doing it. Wisdom would suggest, if you ask for help, and you are given sound guidance, if you follow that advice, you success rate increases considerably. If you continue to rush, not measure, not clean, make adjustments without measuring and taking notes, you are unlikely to enjoy your finished product.
There was another user, AspiringDakini, that seemed to have similar issues, maybe look up those threads, and read the advice given.

 

[TorontoPaul]

I appreciate the help. What would happen if i add the sorbate early?

Well i dont want it to taste bad and you said if I make it too strong it will taste bad. I thought I read somewhete about adding sorbate early to make it sweet.

I also bought brandy to make some port and i think im supposed to add it to the must before SG hits below 1.

Why do I need camden tablets. What else do I need besides potassium sorbate?

 

[PierreR]

So your back to wanting it strong? LET IT FINISH fermenting, measure the SG, or buy a cheap alcohol measuring device, know what you have before you try to change it. If you want a strong port type wine, why add the brandy? Drink the brandy, or buy a port wine. Once you understand how to make a typical wine, then you can step up to making a port. Little steps. That what I would do anyway.

Campden tablets is your means of sterilizing your must before you add yeast, and your insurance (sterilizing) each time you rack your wine. YOU NEED TO DO THIS!

You need airlocks. You need to sterilize EVERYTHING that touches your wine. You NEED patience. Anything else is extra, to increase your quality... Acid blend, grape tannin, yeast nutrient, yeast energizer, finings... There are more should or could haves, but wine has been made for centuries with grapes and time. Nothing else. We live in a world where we understand how to make things better, and more consistently/scientifically by measuring, and balancing accordingly.

Here is your homework. Read the book I linked for you. Stop asking questions, and read, understand the whats and whys, then if you need clarification, ask. Many people want to help. Hell there are guys here that make me look like a bumbling idiot! But I am reading, learning, buying books, and asking when I am stumped, or think I have a solution, and am wondering if someone else has had better luck.

If you add brandy, you increase the alcohol. Too high the yeast dies.

Im going to bed. If it sounds like im rambling, I'm tired. I apologize if I sound harsh.

 

[TorontoPaul]

Ive started reading the book last night to the part about acid. It seems like I ask questions and I just get criticism.

I appreciate every bit of help I can get.

I double racked the wine last night and used coffee filters. It took 2 hours for only 2 gallons. I just checked the wine again today and it has gunk at bottom again. It looks like paint on the bottom.

It still smells like vinegar to me and that worries me. It has smelled like that since the first week.

 

[PierreR]

Nobody means to criticize. Just tring to point you in the right direction. Curious why you racked again. You exposed your wine to 2 hours of airborn particles, and who knows what on the coffee filters... Did you use campden tablets this time? I'm guessing it has or is in the process of becoming a sour container of vinager.

In your reading so far, have you crossed any part of the publication that made you think "I didn't do that" or "I didnt add that"? If so, it is these steps you need to not miss on your next go around.

If you get to a brew supply store, pick up a 1 gallon jug, a bung, airlock, campden tablets. Start fresh, and resist the urge to open the container to smell or taste. Take notes, ask here if your not sure BEFORE you do something to your wine. You will do fine.

 

[sour_grapes]

If you do decide to start over, here is a thread describing a way to make a wine meeting your description of what you want: http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=36379

 

[TorontoPaul]

Nobody means to criticize. Just tring to point you in the right direction. Curious why you racked again. You exposed your wine to 2 hours of airborn particles, and who knows what on the coffee filters... Did you use campden tablets this time? I'm guessing it has or is in the process of becoming a sour container of vinager.

In your reading so far, have you crossed any part of the publication that made you think "I didn't do that" or "I didnt add that"? If so, it is these steps you need to not miss on your next go around.

If you get to a brew supply store, pick up a 1 gallon jug, a bung, airlock, campden tablets. Start fresh, and resist the urge to open the container to smell or taste. Take notes, ask here if your not sure BEFORE you do something to your wine. You will do fine.

How else am i supposed to rack without taking it from the bottles?

Why would it turn into vinegar?

I dont have campden tablets.

This is my first time racking it.

 

[GreginND]

Paul,

I suspect people are showing a bit of frustration because you are blazing ahead full speed without really waiting to learn how to do this. And you seem very impatient with us. It's hard to do this on a written forum and would be a lot easier in person. So please bear with us.

I think you are on the right track now to read as much as you can about the process. Actually, winemaking is quite simple and I think your wine may actually be just fine. It should not be turning to vinegar already.

I think with just a few adjustments, measurements and understanding of what additives are necessary and their function, you will be able to figure this out and do it well.

Let me explain the simplest way of making wine and then try to clarify a few points for you about additives and what they do or don't do to make it better.

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Fruit juice (or fruit pulp and water) with the right sugar will turn into wine with the action of wine yeast.

Wine grapes will produce sugar levels that will make a wine ranging from 11-15% alcohol, give or take. A hydrometer is your friend because it lets you measure the sugar content at the beginning and at the end so you know about how much alcohol will be produced.

A starting gravity of 1.090 will produce an alcohol level of about 12.5% if all of the sugar is fermented. You can look up charts or check your hydrometer "potential alcohol" numbers to see that. There are also formulas to calculate alcohol content based on your starting and ending gravity readings.

The simplest wines from grapes:

Red grapes - crush, ferment with skins until dry (the sugar is gone), press the wine, let it sit and clarify racking every couple months or so until the wine is clear. Bottle and enjoy.

White wines - crush, press the fresh juice away from the skins, ferment until dry. Rack every couple months until clear, bottle and enjoy.

Fruit juices/fruit pulp - make like above but add sugar to get to your starting level you desire (e.g. 1.090). Ferment as above either the juice or with the pulp.

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Now - a few things to know about wine that can help you make better wine.

--During active fermentation the CO2 being produced protects it. So you don't need to worry about air too much.

--After fermentation is done and the wine is no longer bubbling, air is the number one thing that can ruin it. It will oxidize. So you need to keep it in jugs with as little air space as possible and and airlock. Avoid opening too often, though you don't have to be too anal about that.

--No need to "filter" young cloudy wine through coffee filters or anything else. It is futile. It clogs and takes a lot of time and air exposure. The best way to clear it is to let time do the job. Rack the cleanest wine off of the sediments by siphoning into a clean bottle. Make sure it is full to the top (no air space) so put it into progressively smaller containers or use another wine to add to it to top it up after racking.

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Additives - the two most important for you are Potassium Metabisulfite (also known as Campden tablets) and potassium sorbate. Here's some information about what they do and how to use them:

Potassium Metabisulfite - a powdered (or tablet) form of a chemical that will produce sulfur dioxide (SO2) in your wine. This has two main purposes - it helps protect the wine from spoilage bacteria (acetobacter that produces vinegar, wild weak yeasts that could impart off flavors, micoderma infections, etc). It also helps to protect it some from oxidizing.

Often a dose is added before fermentation to grapes that come from the field to kill molds, bacteria and wild yeasts. This is allowed to rest for 24 hours before yeast is added to start fermentation. Most wine yeasts are stronger and more tolerant of SO2 than wild yeasts.

Right after the vigorous fermentation is done and you rack it for the first time into a secondary container don't add sulfites. Let every last trace of fermentation stop. I would let it go a couple weeks to a month. On the next racking - add a dose of sulfites. I add a dose on every other racking after that and once right before bottling. Now, if you step up your equipment and techniques you can get some things to measure the SO2 so you know more precisely whether or not you really need to add more. But I find without it the schedule of every other racking adding a dose (0.4 g per gallon or 1 campden tablet per gallon) works well. This will keep your wine from spoiling as it is aging and clarifying.

Potassium Sorbate - this is a chemical that prevents yeast from reproducing. It does NOT kill the yeast. So, adding it early when there is a lot of active yeast population doesn't do anything. It will not stop them from continuing to ferment. You only need to add sorbate if you will finish your wine with some sugar left. The best way to do this is to make you wine as above fermenting it dry until all the sugar is gone. Let it age, clarify and do your rackings until it is very clear. When you are a few weeks before you want to bottle it, add the sorbate, a dose of sulfite and sugar to your taste. I like to wait a few weeks before bottling after sweetening it up to make sure it doesn't start to ferment again. Sometimes sorbate can go bad. Always use sorbate that is no more than 1 year old.

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There are lots of other things one can do along the way as far as additives to help fermentation, optimize color, degrade pectins, etc. I would not worry about learning those yet. You can step up as you get more confident with the process and have a few successful batches under your belt.

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Also you comment that the wine smells like "vinegar". It probably smells like young wine at this point. It should not have oxidized to vinegar yet. Young and fermenting wine can have all kinds of strange smells that usually go away after it has had time to sit and clarify.

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Lastly, have patience. I know it's hard. But the more patient you can be with your wine (and with us) the better. Feel free to ask questions if something doesn't make sense. But don't be impatient. We really are trying to help. There is a lot to learn and it can take time to learn it. Start slow and get some experience. It will help.

 

[TorontoPaul]

Thank you gregin.

So its not too late to throw a campden tablet in the wine?

I was confused about how to use it i thought it was just for cleaning and rinsing.

So I just drop a csmpden tablet in the wine and let it dissolve?

Is there anything else i need to buy?

I will get airlocks but i dont know if they will fit sny of my containers or how to size them.

 

[PierreR]

Thank you gregin.

So its not too late to throw a campden tablet in the wine?

I was confused about how to use it i thought it was just for cleaning and rinsing.

So I just drop a csmpden tablet in the wine and let it dissolve?

Is there anything else i need to buy?

I will get airlocks but i dont know if they will fit sny of my containers or how to size them.

For the airlock, they go into rubber bungs, They are a tapered rubber plug, with a hole for the airlock. Simply measure the opening of the bottle, tell the clerk the dimension, and they should be able to give you the size you need.

Crush the campden tablet between 2 spoons, into a powder. Disolve in a 1/4 cup of water to avoid a foaming incident. Glad your keeping at it!

 

[menerdari]

Crush the campden tablet between 2 spoons, into a powder. Disolve in a 1/4 cup of water to avoid a foaming incident. Glad your keeping at it!

I find it easier to crush the tablet in the water, it gets soft pretty quickly in the water and breaks up easily.

 

[PierreR]

I find it easier to crush the tablet in the water, it gets soft pretty quickly in the water and breaks up easily.

See? This is why I like this site, always something new to learn!

@GreginND Great post!

 

[GreginND]

Thank you gregin.

So its not too late to throw a campden tablet in the wine?

I was confused about how to use it i thought it was just for cleaning and rinsing.

So I just drop a csmpden tablet in the wine and let it dissolve?

Is there anything else i need to buy?

I will get airlocks but i dont know if they will fit sny of my containers or how to size them.

Others have commented on how to best add campden tablets. I use the powder myself and weigh it out using a gram scale. It is best to dissolve it in a little water to make the incorporation into the wine easier. Same with the sorbate when you add that.

I didn't mention the a solution of sulfites or sulfites with some citric acid to activate the SO2 is often used as a sanitizing solution. You should get into the habit of sanitizing all of your equipment before it touches your wine. You will hear all kinds of opinions about this. From my experience if you keep everything very clean and dry, and you are properly protecting your wine with sulfites along the way, it will not be spoiled if you didn't sanitize a clean spoon before you stirred your wine.

 

[TorontoPaul]

Hey guys.

Its day 21.

I just measured the batches and the SG has not changed. Most of them are at 1.02 and the big one is still at 1.03.

Im not sure if they are stuck or what is happening.

I set a batch a side to make port and i added brandy to it. It has an SG of 1.01 and it tastes good.

The smell has gone away from the wine musts which i guess is a good sign.

Is it stuck or just taking a while. Keep in mind the temperature has dropped here the last few days from 15*C to 9*c in the day (outside)

 

[GreginND]

Hey guys.


Is it stuck or just taking a while. Keep in mind the temperature has dropped here the last few days from 15*C to 9*c in the day (outside)

It is just not possible to determine that without knowing what the starting sugar level was. Adding brandy undoubtedly raised the alcohol and would likely prevent any further fermentation. So I would say it is likely done.