Grape Juice Prices

[MedPretzel]

I'm thinking about picking up some grape juice at one of our local wineries this fall. I was wondering if anyone had priced this type of "must" before. Catawba (since everyone in my family likes the wine) is priced at $4.50 per gallon juice, and so I was wondering if it's worth it or not. Of course, they have other grape varieties, but they're out of my league pricewise.





Has anyone done this before? Any tips/tricks for starting a wine this way?





Thanks!

 

[Bill B]

Hi Martina, I just returned from upstate New York and went to Walkers Fruit Basket. I got 5 gal. Cherry for $40 and a 5 gal Blackberry for $70.00 . The catawa runs at $28.75 so for 4.50 per gal I would say thats a good price. Hope this helps.


Bill (BB)

 

[MedPretzel]

THANK YOU!








Your input is greatly appreciated! THe prices were from last year's harvest, so I'm hoping they're similar this year!








Thanks!

 

[cbwenger]

martina, i think talking with the distributors here in NY and PA area, most juices in 5 or 6 gallons run from $25 to $55 (pinot was the high end), and they are trucked in from california, but usually every wine from merlot, cab, syrah, reisling, chardonnay, sauv blanc, are all available... usually from food wholesalers (especially Italian owned) and fresh produce stores, so the wineries might be a little bit higher, but maybe not...again $4.50 is still cheap though

 

[Hippie]

Great price. Buy lots and make lots!

 

[Jackie]

For that price, I'd definitely go for it. I've made fruit wine that cost more than that. I've never had catawba.

 

[MedPretzel]

Well, it's per gallon juice. I was hoping to have 12 gallons (which would mean 2 6-gallon garboys need to be empty by then). Or I could make 3 5-gallon ones and make 15 gallons, but I'm a little scared of the price vs how the wines would turn out. I'm afraid of botching something that expensive up.


I don't know what yeast to use, if to oak or not, or so on. I am sure if I go out to the place and ask the people, they'd help me, but my obsessive-compulsive personality wants everything to be in place before I go.

 

[MedPretzel]

<DD>
Ode to Catawba Wine
By Henry Wadsworth Longfellow
<DT>This song of mine
<DT>Is a song of the Vine
<DT>To be sung by the glowing embers
<DT>Of wayside inns,
<DT>When the rain begins
<DT>To darken the drear Novembers.
<DT>
<DT>It is not a song
<DT>Of the Scuppernong,
<DT>From warm Carolinian valleys,
<DT>Nor the Isabel
<DT>And the Muscadel
<DT>That bask in our garden alleys.
<DT>
<DT>
<DT>Nor the red Mustang,
<DT>Whose clusters hang
<DT>O’er the waves of the Colorado,
<DT>And the fiery flood
<DT>Of whose purple blood
<DT>Has a dash of Spanish bravado.
<DT>
<DT>For the richest and best
<DT>Is the wine of the West,*
<DT>That grows by the Beautiful River, +
<DT>Whose sweet perfume
<DT>Fills all the room
<DT>With a benison on the giver.
<DT>
<DT>And as hollow trees
<DT>Are the haunts of bees,
<DT>Forever going and coming;
<DT>So this crystal hive
<DT>Is all alive
<DT>With a swarming and buzzing and humming.
<DT>
<DT>Very good in its way
<DT>Is the Verzenay,
<DT>Or the Sillery soft and creamy;
<DT>But Catawba wine
<DT>has a taste more divine,
<DT>More dulcet, delicious and dreamy.
<DT>
<DT>There grows no vine
<DT>By the haunted Rhine,
<DT>By Danube or Quadalquivir,
<DT>Nor on island or cape,
<DT>That bears such a grape
<DT>As grows by the Beautiful River.
<DT>
<DT>Drugged is their juice
<DT>For foreign use,
<DT>When shipped o’er the reeling Atlantic,
<DT>To rack our brains
<DT>With the fever pains,
<DT>That have driven the Old World Frantic.
<DT>
<DT>
<DT>To the sewers and sinks
<DT>With all such drinks,
<DT>And after them tumble the mixer,
<DT>For a poison malign
<DT>Is such Borgia wine,
<DT>Or at best but a Devil’s elixir.
<DT>
<DT>While pure as a spring
<DT>Is the wine I sing,
<DT>And to praise it, one needs but name it;
<DT>For Catawba wine
<DT>Has need of no sign,
<DT>No tavern-bush to proclaim it.
<DT>
<DT>And this Song of the Vine,
<DT>This greeting of mine,
<DT>The winds and the birds shall deliver
<DT>To the Queen of the West,
<DT>In her garlands dressed,
<DT>On the banks of the Beautiful River.
<DT>
<DT>
<DT>*At the time this poem was written, Ohio was "the West."
<DT>
<DT>+The word "Ohio" means "Beautiful River" in the language of the Indians who lived along it. </DT>

 

[Hippie]

Wow. I am in awe. Very nice find.

 

[cbwenger]

outstanding!!!!


i think it would be lots of fun to have a couple batches and tweek one different than the other and compare at the end, just take a little chance (maybe two fives and a six) or just two fives ($25 a batch is still cheap for wine, so if you do screw it up, don't tell anyone and use it for cooking wine)... i would ask the people you buy it from what type of yeast they use, or find someone who made a catawba kit (do they have catawba kits??) and find out what type of yeast they used... i would not oak it, catawba is a sweet (very sweet, like you Martina) white wine, so i wouldn't worry about tannins and such and no malolactic fermentations (thanks Glenvall)... should be simple, just ask around to find the right yeast... Catawba is big in Northeast, so if you can't find any info, i'd say call a winery that carries it and ask

 

[Hippie]

I am sure a Catawba must should be fermented as cool as possible.

 

[Joseph1]

Martina,<?amespace prefix = o ns = "urnchemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" />

The following is from the Southeast Missouri State University website:

“Catawba is an American Vitis labrusca type grape that was discovered by the Catawba River in North Carolina. The 180-day growing season in southern Missouri allows Catawba to ripen fully and avoid the high acid levels encountered in other eastern grape growing areas.

The pink berries of Catawba are large and the clusters are medium in size. It has the "foxy" labrusca character. The vines are hardy and vigorous with susceptibility to several fungal diseases including blackrot and downy mildew. Catawba ripens late, a couple of weeks after Concord.

Catawba is a pink grape that is processed as a white wine grape. It is not fermented on the skins so rice hulls are recommended for use in processing due to its "slip skin" characteristic. It makes a medium bodied, fruity, labrusca wine that is best made in a sweeter style. The wine is pink to orange in color.”

Not knowing the growing conditions in Ohio, I would guess that the Catawba from Ohio would have a higher acid content. You will need to use your acid test kit and adjust the must as needed. A sweeter wine will balance with higher levels of acid.

If you make a sweeter wine, you will likely use potassium sorbate to preventfermentation from restarting. If sorbate is present during malolactic fermentation, it will be converted to hexanedienol, this has an unpleasant geranium smell. Either be sure that malolactic fermentation has completed before adding sorbate or keep the SO2 levels high enough to prevent malolactic fermentation.

For yeast, you may wish to consider Lalvin 71B-1122, because it metabolizes more malic acid during fermentation than most other yeast, it softens acidity perception. It produces rounder, smoother and more aromatic wines that tend to mature quickly. Another yeast to consider is Lalvin K1-1116, it expresses freshness of white varieties and aromas are retained for a longer time. You could make a batch with 71B and a batch with K1. During bulk aging, blend some of the 71B with the K1 and see if the blended characteristics from the yeast produce a better wine. Good Luck

 

[MedPretzel]

Wow, Joseph!





Thank you!!! I was thinking about the K1, after reading up a little on it's qualities, but I wasnt' sure of myself. I was also thinking of the 71B, but again, my doubt crept over me and became somewhat worried.

Well, I am going to make the wine a little bit sweeter, since my family seems to be going for my sweeter wines (not the bone dry ones) lately. I will test myself, of course (thanks to my handy pH-ometer!!!), but also ask about the acidity of the juice when I pick it up. I think they should probably be able to tell me about the Brix of it too, don't you think?





Thank you very much for helping, all! I look forward to making it, but also to drink it!

 

[Hippie]

Yes, I think they should have numbers available for you.


Please give us play by play posts. Good luck.

 

[cbwenger]

i don't think you can make a dry catawba if you tried... it will naturally be sweet (very sweet) so if you try to make it sweet, (or sweeter) be prepared for a VERY SWEET WINE.... i do like dry wines, so maybe i am overreating, but i have a hard time drinking catawba's because they are sooo sweet