Bramble Tip Wine - I'm Going For It!

[vinny]

@Raptor99 I never even considered antioxidants. After some quick and admittedly incomplete searching it appears it's not as simple as heat or no heat. Some antioxidants and vitamins are only released by heat and survive. Others are degraded by heat. I guess if it's a concern then a bit of research is needed and then proceed accordingly. For me, it's now on my radar.

Here we go! Nice work @Raptor99

Antioxidant wine. I'm going for it!

 

[Raptor99]

Here is an arrticle on antioxidants in wine lees: https://mdpi-res.com/d_attachment/a...5/article_deploy/antioxidants-08-00045-v2.pdf
I note in their procedure that they are extracting antioxidans from try solids, after filtering them out from the liquid part of the lees.
This research indicates one more reason to make wine lees into a smoothie instead of just dumping them.
QUESTION: How much of the antioxidants remain in finished wine, rather than in the lees?


Elderberries contain a compound that helps to inhibit viruses, including influenza.

Elderberry contains anthocyanins, a subset of flavonoids which may have immunomodulating and possibly anti-inflammatory effects [10]. Anthocyanins can attach to (and render ineffective) viral glycoproteins that enable viruses to enter host cells, thereby potentially having an inhibitory effect on viral infection.

Source: Elderberry for prevention and treatment of viral respiratory illnesses: a systematic review.
I have not seen research on whether anthocyanins are retained in the finished wine, but I do avoid simmering my elderberries. But last winter I have opened a bottle of elderbery wine at the peak of the flu season. Does it work? Not sure. But even if it doesn't, I enjoy my elderberry wine.

Maybe we need a forum for "wine nerds"

 

[BigDaveK]

All of our wines from colored fruit have antioxidants, mostly polyphenols and flavonoids, and we already know how important those are to our finished product. From what I've read boiling for 5 hours will destroy all antioxidants. (Duh, what a surprise.) And pasteurization temps (160F) will have little if any affect.

So, generally, it seems that if our wine has color we can say it has antioxidants and is healthy.

 

[Raptor99]

I haven't found a study yet on the effect of heat on polyphenols in wine, but here is one on red peppers:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3866734/Raw red peppers have a total polyphenol of about 150, which drops to 95 after 5 minutes of boiling.

After looking at some cooking sites, it seems that boiling is generally descructive to polyphenols. One site said that part of the problem is that antioxidants leach into the water. That wouldn't be a problem when pouring hot water over your fruit.

 

[Rice_Guy]

@Raptor99 I never even considered antioxidants. After some quick and admittedly incomplete searching it appears it's not as simple as heat or no heat. Some antioxidants and vitamins are only released by heat and survive. Others are degraded by heat. I guess if it's a concern then a bit of research is needed and then proceed accordingly. For me, it's now on my radar.

* we mainly produce wine as a flavored drink, not as a medicine.
* to the extent that polyphenols maintain flavor I like them. To the extent that polyphenols make pretty red or pink colors I like them. As a general statement I will make a rose or red wine in preference to a clear wine.
* extraction? it depends, it depends, it depends. There is quite a bit published on grape. Example standard processing says remove seeds to avoid bitter flavors and punch down the cap five days to a week to extract skin polyphenols. Some of this is time based and some of the extraction is alcohol/ solvent based. With tea tannin temperature improves total polyphenol extraction, but really high extraction produces bitter flavors. pH is also a major variable on what kind of compound comes out. . . . it depends on what is in the plant,,, as a home wine maker I select the process for flavor, not theoretical antioxidants.
* vitamin C in peppers is extremely water soluble and easily degrades with temperature. Red pigments survive better.
* temperature in old recipes is probably mainly for killing micro. Metabisulphite would be hard to come by before the 1940’s. It was done because it improved the odds of a good flavor.

* at this point I have found some raspberry tips and heated 1:1 with distilled. Boy was the flavor astringent. This isn’t one I would scale up to a gallon size. As far as a stable foam, I couldn’t see it.

 

[BigDaveK]

* to the extent that polyphenols maintain flavor I like them. To the extent that polyphenols make pretty red or pink colors I like them. As a general statement I will make a rose or red wine in preference to a clear wine.

I recently made my first dried hibiscus (sabdariffa) wine, wonderful flavor and incredible color. (Looks like a gallon of iron-rich blood.) And I'm with you on clear wines - shades of yellow or amber is really starting to annoy me. To this year's black walnut I added a tiny amount of hibiscus for color, it doesn't take much.

* we mainly produce wine as a flavored drink, not as a medicine.

Absolutely. It's always about the flavor.

On a related note, I recently started reading The Dorito Effect about the flavor industry. We can be made to eat anything if it tastes good.

 

[winemanden]

On a related note, I recently started reading The Dorito Effect about the flavor industry. We can be made to eat anything if it tastes good.

I know one or two people who eat anything, tasting good or not, just so long as it's free!

 

[BigDaveK]

* at this point I have found some raspberry tips and heated 1:1 with distilled. Boy was the flavor astringent. This isn’t one I would scale up to a gallon size. As far as a stable foam, I couldn’t see it.

@Rice_Guy I noticed something interesting this morning - the deer are eating the tips of elderberry seedlings and tips and leaves of the wild blackberry and they're leaving the raspberry alone. I guess they don't like it either.