Bramble Tip Wine - I'm Going For It!
- Thread starter BigDaveK
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Here is an arrticle on antioxidants in wine lees: https://mdpi-res.com/d_attachment/a...5/article_deploy/antioxidants-08-00045-v2.pdf
I note in their procedure that they are extracting antioxidans from try solids, after filtering them out from the liquid part of the lees.
This research indicates one more reason to make wine lees into a smoothie instead of just dumping them.
QUESTION: How much of the antioxidants remain in finished wine, rather than in the lees?
Elderberries contain a compound that helps to inhibit viruses, including influenza.
I have not seen research on whether anthocyanins are retained in the finished wine, but I do avoid simmering my elderberries. But last winter I have opened a bottle of elderbery wine at the peak of the flu season. Does it work? Not sure. But even if it doesn't, I enjoy my elderberry wine.
Maybe we need a forum for "wine nerds"
I note in their procedure that they are extracting antioxidans from try solids, after filtering them out from the liquid part of the lees.
This research indicates one more reason to make wine lees into a smoothie instead of just dumping them.
QUESTION: How much of the antioxidants remain in finished wine, rather than in the lees?
Elderberries contain a compound that helps to inhibit viruses, including influenza.
Source: Elderberry for prevention and treatment of viral respiratory illnesses: a systematic review.
I have not seen research on whether anthocyanins are retained in the finished wine, but I do avoid simmering my elderberries. But last winter I have opened a bottle of elderbery wine at the peak of the flu season. Does it work? Not sure. But even if it doesn't, I enjoy my elderberry wine.
Maybe we need a forum for "wine nerds"
All of our wines from colored fruit have antioxidants, mostly polyphenols and flavonoids, and we already know how important those are to our finished product. From what I've read boiling for 5 hours will destroy all antioxidants. (Duh, what a surprise.) And pasteurization temps (160F) will have little if any affect.
So, generally, it seems that if our wine has color we can say it has antioxidants and is healthy.
So, generally, it seems that if our wine has color we can say it has antioxidants and is healthy.
I haven't found a study yet on the effect of heat on polyphenols in wine, but here is one on red peppers:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3866734/Raw red peppers have a total polyphenol of about 150, which drops to 95 after 5 minutes of boiling.
After looking at some cooking sites, it seems that boiling is generally descructive to polyphenols. One site said that part of the problem is that antioxidants leach into the water. That wouldn't be a problem when pouring hot water over your fruit.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3866734/Raw red peppers have a total polyphenol of about 150, which drops to 95 after 5 minutes of boiling.
After looking at some cooking sites, it seems that boiling is generally descructive to polyphenols. One site said that part of the problem is that antioxidants leach into the water. That wouldn't be a problem when pouring hot water over your fruit.
* we mainly produce wine as a flavored drink, not as a medicine.
* to the extent that polyphenols maintain flavor I like them. To the extent that polyphenols make pretty red or pink colors I like them. As a general statement I will make a rose or red wine in preference to a clear wine.
* extraction? it depends, it depends, it depends. There is quite a bit published on grape. Example standard processing says remove seeds to avoid bitter flavors and punch down the cap five days to a week to extract skin polyphenols. Some of this is time based and some of the extraction is alcohol/ solvent based. With tea tannin temperature improves total polyphenol extraction, but really high extraction produces bitter flavors. pH is also a major variable on what kind of compound comes out. . . . it depends on what is in the plant,,, as a home wine maker I select the process for flavor, not theoretical antioxidants.
* vitamin C in peppers is extremely water soluble and easily degrades with temperature. Red pigments survive better.
* temperature in old recipes is probably mainly for killing micro. Metabisulphite would be hard to come by before the 1940’s. It was done because it improved the odds of a good flavor.
* at this point I have found some raspberry tips and heated 1:1 with distilled. Boy was the flavor astringent. This isn’t one I would scale up to a gallon size. As far as a stable foam, I couldn’t see it.
I recently made my first dried hibiscus (sabdariffa) wine, wonderful flavor and incredible color. (Looks like a gallon of iron-rich blood.) And I'm with you on clear wines - shades of yellow or amber is really starting to annoy me. To this year's black walnut I added a tiny amount of hibiscus for color, it doesn't take much.
Absolutely. It's always about the flavor.
On a related note, I recently started reading The Dorito Effect about the flavor industry. We can be made to eat anything if it tastes good.
winemanden
Senior Member
I know one or two people who eat anything, tasting good or not, just so long as it's free!
@Rice_Guy I noticed something interesting this morning - the deer are eating the tips of elderberry seedlings and tips and leaves of the wild blackberry and they're leaving the raspberry alone. I guess they don't like it either.
@BigDaveK Any update on your blackberry tip wine? My thornless blackberries have primocanes over 20 feet long, so I need to prune them back. I'm wondering if I can use more than just the tips of the new growth.
The bramble tip wine recipes I can find generally say to simmer or boil them for 1 hour. But when people make blackberry leaf tea, they pour boiling water over the leaves and steep for 5-10 minutes. So I will probably try pouring on boiling water and letting it steep until cool. That's how I make peppermint tea for my chocolate peppermint wine.
Deer love the tender new growth of berries, and cherry and apple trees. But a while back, the deer grazed my mom's raspberry plants all the way to the ground. So I think it depends on what they have available to eat. Just like us, they will eat the tastiest food first. Maybe they prefer blackberries over raspberries? But I think that they link new growth on cherry trees even better, based on my experience.
The bramble tip wine recipes I can find generally say to simmer or boil them for 1 hour. But when people make blackberry leaf tea, they pour boiling water over the leaves and steep for 5-10 minutes. So I will probably try pouring on boiling water and letting it steep until cool. That's how I make peppermint tea for my chocolate peppermint wine.
Gosh, I'm so sorry. The problem with having a large variety of wines is that it's too easy to keep drinking the favorites. Give me a couple days and I'll let you know.
I remember being disappointed when it was young. But there's hope! I thought the same thing about black walnut leaf wine. At two years it's incredible and I added it to my yearly ToDo list.
I try to do the opposite -- drink up my least favorites so they are gone. Also I use them for cooking wine, as most boiled wines taste alike.
I understand your logic. But being old and retired mortality plays a role in my wine choices - drink the good stuff while I can.
Sorry for the delay @Raptor99. The bramble tip has been in bulk for almost a year so I racked and tasted. Astringent? Big time! Okay, so maybe more time will help that. And I wonder what sugar will do? BAM! Blew me away! Tastes like a berry wine, swear to GOD! I back sweetened, sorbate, kmeta and will re-taste in a couple weeks and bottle.
The country wines continue to amaze me. The vine wine tasted like grapes and the blackberry tips taste like berries. To answer your question, yes, I would make this again.
And the color was unexpected!
The country wines continue to amaze me. The vine wine tasted like grapes and the blackberry tips taste like berries. To answer your question, yes, I would make this again.
And the color was unexpected!
I forgot to mention that I laughed after tasting the sweetened version - the berry flavor was SO unexpected.
According to my notes I used 8 oz of raisins.
And I used wild blackberry tips. I wonder if there would be any difference using black raspberry or thornless?
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