going to college for winemaking?

[Spacedonut]

I was wondering if anyone knows anything about some of the enology programs in the U.S. I am looking into Cornell and so far it sounds like a great program I am hoping that someone has personal experience with anything of the sort?

 

[GerardVineyard]

If you are from Grand Rapids MI, check into Northwestern MI College in Traverse City. They currently have a Viticulture program and are looking into an Enology program as well. I have heard these programs are picking the program that was at MSU before they stopped the program a few years ago.

Another option is a program called VESTA - Viticulture and Enology Science and Technology Alliance, which is an online program. In works with 8 different colleges including MSU and offers both certificate and Associate of Applied Science programs. Visist there website at www.vesta-usa.org I heard of this program while attending a vineyard seminar hosted by MSU in TC last month.

NorthCentral Michigan College in Petoskey is also working on putting together an associates program in these two areas in the near future. I just completed 2 workshops there this past year and earned 36 CEU's thru their Institute for Business and Industry. The instructor is a local vineyard / winery owner. It was a great program !!

 

[AlFulchino]

i would like to ask a question being a bit of an iconoclast....what is it about wine making and or viticulture that you could not teach yourself?

 

[cpfan]

Not applicable to Spacedonut but Niagara College in Niagara-on-the-Lake (St Catharines) Ontario has a Teaching Winery and just started a Brewery this past fall. They also have a vineyard as part of the school grounds. Wonder if they grow their own hops.

Steve

 

[Spacedonut]

There is nothing i couldn't teach myself persay. but I believehighly in higher education and if i can turn something i may enjoy into a college experience and a carrer then why not?

 

[GerardVineyard]

i would like to ask a question being a bit of an iconoclast....what is it about wine making and or viticulture that you could not teach yourself?

Same as, you can teach yourself to cook. But, over the years my culinary degree has gotten me some nice jobs that required me to have an education.

 

[AlFulchino]

i am not against it...afterall i sent one youngin' to college to be an engineer...and i realize that certain times like for medicine it has its place....and i would even agree that the school environment fosters communication that might lead to a tid bit here and there of information that would be extremely helpful

i would even venture that a chemist or physicist would have a nice time playing w experieiments that they might not have easy access to

but none of that compares to loss of intuition primarily brought about by the average school environment....

additionally most careers can be learned on one's own and via visiting people already in the field....even apprenticing if you will

but to me the biggest loss for the average person is loss of individuality...a certain blandness and average-ness is fostered for the purposes of passing tests

once again..i am not against schooling 100%....but i believe it has less place and importance that is typically accorded to it

i can point to many things and businesses that buttress my point but that would be overkill...i just wanted to make a simple point...and we wont even talk about all the money thrown into education these days for less than superior results.

i think this...that if *you* in particular *want* to be a winemaker or viticulturist....then *you*......will

a school can expose you to things for *sure*...but i think you can find them *anyway* if you have natural curiousity

 

[AlFulchino]

I hear you Gerard....and i have no argument with your point....so many businesses want to see that people have jumped thru certain hoops...it gives a reasonable assumption that a person has put time into learning something and should be competent to s degree as to perform duties that the business would require.

 

[Spacedonut]

I would love to be able to apprentice somewhere that would be an amazing experience. But to my knowledge if I plan on being employable most people will want to look at some peice of paper saying I can do what is they want me to. I personally think our education system is a "bit" mind numbing but ive dealt with that for 16 out of the 20 years of my life and I am still "unique".
But I also don't know much about the wine industry as of yet so I may be incredibly wrong about the need of a degree to be employable.
That is partly why I asked my first question. So I could start to figure out what I would need to do to become an apprentice or an employee at a winery/vineyard.

 

[AlFulchino]

well its a good question and a good topic, i am glad you raised it...you have to find your own path in life and i am not here to shake your tree...i will share something with you that i told my engineer son who went to a fine school and works for a defense contractor....and make note of the word 'average' .....i told him....'the *average* engineer has his or her job because of what some visonary put in from of him or her'

 

[midwestwine]

Des Moines community college in Iowa has a ecology program that's is online and you only have to do 2day of class time at the school. Every week their is a video posted online that is from the class the day before. Paul Gospodarczyk is the teacher. I have taken vin 150 and that was a great class. Here is a link for the program.

https://go.dmacc.edu/programs/viticulture/Pages/welcome.aspx

 

[grapeman]

Cornell has a very good Enology and Viticulture program. It not only teaches you all the basics, but they have access to labs, vineyards and wineries all in one location. They also do research on cooperating farms in the vineyards and wineries. They also can aid in placing you in hands on work all around the world. A couple young men from my area are in foreign countries gaining valuable experience in Australia and France. Taken as a whole, it can certainly aid you in gaining some experience and respect in the workplace later.

I have had a lifetime of experience in agriculture and had an Associates degree in Agronomy Plant Science. When I began working with grapes and doing on farm research nobody listened because I don't have a Masters or Doctorate degree. I have had a great opportunity networking with Cornell researchers and have gained a bit of respect from them, but others still think I am just some dumb yokel. That would change if I had the degree. Would I know any more (maybe a bit because you do learn something while in school) than I do now- not a lot, but I would be listened to more intently. There is a joke among a few friends saying they need to chip in and buy me an online phd degree for a few hundred bucks. That piece of paper would get me more respect. I am happy with what I know (although intend on learning until I die) and just hope to help others learn.

Good luck whatever you choose.

 

[Runningwolf]

Well as far as the Enology program goes I have a friend that is taking one on line at Penn State and does a few weekends in the class room a year. Knowing what he already knows as a successful winery owner he is still amazed at what he's learning from different classes.

I agree with everything Al said about wanting to do it and learning it hands on I did that and was quiet successful up until the recession and my job was cut. I have applied to many jobs that I am well qualified for and would be a better candidate then the one they pick but it all comes back to "you didn't meet minimal requirements of at least a BS degree". Damn ask anyone on this forum and they'll tell you I got BS.LOL The other little line they give you is "you're over qualified" which means you're over 50 and too f*ing old!

Looking back I can say I regret not serving my country and for the first time in my life not having a degree.

 

[Spacedonut]

So far Cornell is definantly looking like it has the most impresive program of the ones i have looked at. I was in the "AP" program at my high school and have always enjoyed lab science stuff but I definantly love getting my hands dirty and it looks like Cornell mixes the two of those really well. I think I am going to start looking for oppurtunities for work at a winery somewhere here in michigan to start out with.... Better than working at taco bell....
and it would be nice application fodder when the time comes.

 

[robie]

Out in California, don't UC Davis and maybe Stanford have some kind of enology degree programs?

 

[Spacedonut]

davis and fresno I know do. as far as stanford goes..... google time

 

[JasonH]

Since you are young, you may want to take a major in chemistry or biology. If you get good grades and make grad. school, you can do your thesis on something winemaking related. That program at cornell sounds great but make sure it provides some kind of degree or opportunity to fall back on. I wish I would thought of all this myself before college!

 

[AlFulchino]

from Rich:" When I began working with grapes and doing on farm research nobody listened because I don't have a Masters or Doctorate degree. "

so my question is would i want to prefer to learn from people who do not listen to someone like you Rich who knows a lot? I will answer that....*no!* afterall dont these people teaching you basically know whats from a book or on the job field training that anyone can find their way into ...and that book is 99% of the time a book that anyone can already read for the most part.

and also you said "I am happy with what I know (although intend on learning until I die) and just hope to help others learn."

exactly! and i would add...if you take two people ...one who got the wine education at age 25 and another who learned things on their own....and they both continued in the field until age 65 for example.....could anyone here answer definitively that one OR the other was guaranteed to have more knoweldge and or success than the other during the life they each led?

i would venture that if a young man, in fact if *i were a young man* today were to put aside what the 2 or four yr school would cost in tutelage and room and board and spend the same time being a good nuisance around as many vineyards as he could....reading as much as he could during the same time, could, in the end....take what was to be his school money and get some land and start his own place and be a ahead in the game as the one who felt school was the only way....

and remember, as we all know some people decide on a career change later in their life...so as an added benefit.....the one who saved his or her money and bought the land, had an asset that the schooler did not

 

[Runningwolf]

i would venture that if a young man, in fact if *i were a young man* today were to put aside what the 2 or four yr school would cost in tutelage and room and board and spend the same time being a good nuisance around as many vineyards as he could....reading as much as he could during the same time, could, in the end....take what was to be his school money and get some land and start his own place and be a ahead in the game as the one who felt school was the only way....

Al this is so true. But one thing we are leaving out is that all the money in the world can not buy you a personality and usually not make you a leader either. Without these two things you will never make it on your own in the public. When I would hire management people I always looked for leadership skills first. We could teach you the job but not how to be a leader (of course we could fine tune and teach additional skills).

 

[jet]

In my limited experience, what your degree is in, is not as important as having one and who issued it.