Fulchino Vineyard

[grapeman]

Al have used the Baking Soda myself last year. Ideally you use it for a preventative spray, but it can really dry the stuff up also. I had a mild infection last year, applied it and the mildew dried up within hours to never return. I used1 boxe of baking soda per 50 gallons water and sprayed a half acre with it. Here is a link
http://gardening.about.com/od/gardenproblems/qt/PowderyMildew.htm
and another
http://www.gardenguides.com/pests/tips/powderymildew.asp
and another
http://www.gardenguides.com/pests/tips/powderymildew.asp
you get the idea.


It isn't label approved for this use, so when I use it it is merely for making my garden smell fresher!

 

[Nebraska-Wino]

Hi Al... (also hi Richard....)


Wow.. it has been a looooog time since I was here.....




I too took refractometer readings today....


My Marquettes are at 19 to 21 with seeds just starting to turn brown ... won't be long now...


My St Croix are only at 15 but will be picked at a lower brix so they are getting close too...but seeds are still greenish...


My Concords (for jams/jelly) are just now going thru veraison!


I'll be picking Edelweiss this weekend at a local vineyard/winery. This is probably the first variety here in Nebraska that will be ready for picking (picked at a low brix on purpose).


The fun is just starting !!!!!

 

[AlFulchino]

Thanks Richard...but you *didn't* use it this year....why? Found something you are happy with such as SO?


************


Hey there Roger!!!!! Wow..great numbers! I am planning on EATING all my grapes this year and buying some from Richard if the timing works out.....I just dont think I have enough from each variety to make much wine with....maybe Frontenac and F Gris, Millot, Marquette and a few others....so i may just eat them!


Are your concords sour? I am not familar w concords, but my native grapes down by our play court are plump, purple, good size but still pretty darn sour and i think they may be concord...they never get sweet enough to eat as a table grape.


How often will you take readings? I am thinking of applying Elite and SO in the next few days depending on temps and rain...


Anyone know of any issues regarding lead time to harvest? I cant find any on it that suggest I shouldnt...since i am estimating a mid sept or later harvest.


Later after harvest i will go back to manzoceb and SO..probably first of Oct and again mid Oct...we have an expected frost late Oct ( it will be light...i dont expect i will be spraying at that time.




One last item....what do you all feel regarding a late fall pre-pruning to leave ONLY the trunk and newly formed cordons...and removing all laterals from the cordons......is it not advised? will i be protecting the bud and vine by waiting til late feb or early to mid march to prune all the way back to the cordon?


whats everyone's idea on leaving a spur to overwinter?

 

[Wade E]

Out of curiosity, why would you pick at a low brix on purpose?

 

[grapeman]

First Wade, you pick Edelweiss and Cayuga White at a reduced brix to make the wine before they take on too many foxy flavors. By picking a bit sooner, you don't get overwhelmed by the foxiness and the acids are a bit better to balance the wine overall.

Al, I didn't use the Baking Soda this year because as I say it is a preventative mainly and readily washes off- why do you suppose I didn't use it?

I have never used Stylet oil in my life. Won't say I never will, but around here I don't believe it is the "Magic Bullet" it is out west.


Lead time orpre- harvest interval should be on the label of everything you use- somewhere. Generallu 12-21 days.


I would be reluctant to prune too short too soon. If you have a cold winter and leave the shoots about 2-4 inches on the cordons, it leaves a bit of insurance against frost damage. If they don't get hit bad, go back and just cut them shorter them. You can always take more off, but it is harder to put it back on.

 

[bilbo-in-maine]

One last item....what do you all feel regarding a late fall pre-pruning to leave ONLY the trunk and newly formed cordons...and removing all laterals from the cordons......is it not advised? will i be protecting the bud and vine by waiting til late feb or early to mid march to prune all the way back to the cordon?

Hi Al,
No one can know what to expect for upcoming winter conditions (except maybe the Old Farmers Almanac guy

), but if we get a hard winter with little snow cover, my fear would be that pre-pruned vines might see freeze damage at the cut ends and you would lose some of your cordon spurs. I guess you have to weigh things against how much labor you are looking at in early spring in doing a full pruning then rather than pre-prune earlier. In spite of global warming's effects, it is probably still prudent to expect the usual cold here in New England. One way to work it is to long prune in early April and then finish pruning to desired spur length shortly before bud break. Apical nodes might take it on the chin after long pruning but the lower buds stay better protected during the odd late frost.
It's all a game - sometimes we win, and sometimes not...
Bill

By the way, I can now announce that I have veraison underway on Reliance and Frontenac Gris as of today! Just don't ask me why it is SO late this year. It has been a very strange year.

 

[AlFulchino]

Baking soda...because you didnt have any mildew issues????if so that is great....i have not had any either, but i am attributing it to SO...please educate me on this one! if it never returned last year...was it the b/soda or are you just not susceptible in your area..that would be unusual


Thanks for the advice on the pruning...so I ***CAN*** pre -prune after the leaves fall off in the fall and take all the very excess wood off...i will leave some long spurs and then reduce them next year...that makes perfect sense...thanks for sharing this! thsi will really spread out the workload and help me reduce overwintering possibly infected wood.


i will recheck the elite label...i have it across the street and will check in the am...if it is 12-21 days i will not be able to spray it.


****


Hi Bill...are you suggesting to not do any pruning this fall? I do worry about the cold...but if i prune far enough away from the cordon.....say 8 buds away....do you think this is too risky?


also...what of a shoot coming off of the trunk? dont prune that until spring?

 

[grapeman]

First off, the Cayuga are nice harvested at about 17-19 brix. You can go higher, but just don't expect to go to far into the 20's which it will. It will begin to lose too much acid and be less tasty in the end.


I had powdery mildew a bit last year and the baking soda dried it right up and it didn't come back. I just didn't think it was plausible to put it on this year to only need to spray again 2 days later. With Elite or something similar, you get forward and backward protection so even though it rained, I was still OK for 10 days to 2 weeks. The spray is more expensive than baking soda, but the time, diesel fuel expenditure and such outweight that little extra cost on a per acre basis.


Yes you can fall prune some to lessen the load later, just don't overdo it. You could easily take extra growth off the trunk.

 

[Wade E]

thanks for the knowledge Rich, would you pick Fox grapes early or late? I am noticing quite a few around here just going through varaison, about when would you pick these as I might try a small batch.

 

[Nebraska-Wino]

Wade... St Croix grapes can suffer from too long of a hang time too ...herbaceousness .. others, like Richard said get foxy.


Al... My concords are always EXTREMELY sour till very very ripe... then all of a sudden they turn sweet and great... a bit of foxyness though ... but I only make jams with them anyway.


I don't have any schedule for taking Brix numbers ... just test a few times a week till they get close to harvest ... then check weather reports and check more often.


Later...

 

[grapeman]

Wade those are best when allowed to ripen as much as they can. They typically are very acid and reqire a bit of dilution to be useable, like 4-6 pounds per gallon. You can't wait too long IMHO, unless the birds beat you. I think everyone has some growing nearby, but you will make better wine out of cultivated grapes. That said, the one I made a couple years ago turned out pretty good. I got them from my brother-in law named John, so I called it John Wine and put the picture of a western outhouse on the label.

 

[AlFulchino]

Roger, thanks for the feedback..i will kep an extra eye on teh grapes nearby and see if i can get them at that sweet moment and do something w them like make jam....if it works then i might trellis them


Richard thanks for the info....very much appreciated


side note- the vines are coming back....rain in the forecast for mon or tues and maybe remnants of Fay later next week.....i actually had people praying for us and the vineyard.....that was a nice feelingEdited by: Al Fulchino

 

[Wade E]

Thanks Rich as that is what I thought and I probably will lose them all to birds unless you want to come down here with some more bird netting!

 

[AlFulchino]

what is the highest Brix levels you have heard of ay hatrvest regarding the varieties listed below?

Was there a brix level lower for the variety that made it a better wine than the higher brix number?

 

[grapeman]

Al your refractometer and pH meter will be you friends for a while. Between the two of them and possibly something to measure TA, you can figure the best time to harvest. You want the brix as high as it can get with most varieties, until the pH gets above desired levels . By then the TA will be as low as it will practically get. The one exception I see there is Cayuga White. That one you can harvest at about 17 brix. I will list individual brix levels later I have observed in the past. One thing you don't want to do is rush the harvest or you will get too much acid.

 

[grapeman]

what is the highest Brix levels you have heard of ay hatrvest regarding the varieties listed below?


Warning:The values I have listed below were numbers from last year on 3 year old vines. I have limited experience with these.

Was there a brix level lower for the variety that made it a better wine than the higher brix number?


LaCrescent - 21.5 - Turned out great with this number
LaCross - 22 -Very acceptable
Frontenac - 23 - Should hang as long as possible to lower acid
" " Gris - 22.5 -Hang longer
St Croix- 18.6 -let hang a bit longer
Marquette- 23 - good as is
Cayuga White- 21 - harvest a bit sooner
Brianna
Millot- 23-could have been harvested sooner
Prairie Star - 21.7 -good numbers
Foch - 22 - good as is
Sabrevois - 18.5 - came out great
St Pepin - 22 - very good numbers
Landot Noir -20.7 - pretty decent numbers

******Most of these would have gotten a bit higher, but they were harvested with volunteer help on preset days.Edited by: appleman

 

[AlFulchino]

fantatsic...thats a great guide for me...can you tell me your resulting experience? which ones did you make wine from after gettingthse numbers and harvesting? Would you alter the hang time knowing what you know now excluding volunteer harvesting?

 

[grapeman]

Al I went back and added comments beside them.

 

[AlFulchino]

WOW...WONDERFUL...I donthave enough to make wine from each variety...but i might on the marquette, frontenac and F gris.....if i do i will post what numbers i get and how the resulting wine turned out

 

[AlFulchino]

Rich...what was the approx date of harvest for those numbers??


******