Frontanec grapes

[Kathey_RN]

I have made some of the boxed wines but have the chance to make wine from fresh grapes. I do have lots of questions. I have read so many things and different recipes that are so different. I have several questions about everything. I have read to crush the grapes and ferment that must, I have heard to crush the grapes and use only the juice. Second, when you add the sulfite to kill off bacteria etc, doesn't that kill the yeast? Do you have to wait to add the yeast? What I am reading says once you add the sulfites, check your acid levels and correct them, check temp that you just add the yeast.


We are suppose to pick grapes saturday so any help would be great!


Kathy

 

[grapeman]

Kathy a point to remember is that Frontenac is one of the highest acid grapes you will ever encounter. Be sure they are good and ripe before picking. They should be about 25 brix or higher to be ripe. Check the pH and see if it is at least 3.0, preferably higher. Try for a TA of under 14 g/L. Be prepared to use Malolactic Bacteria on it and maybe even a yeast that will eat up some of the malic acid.


I would crush it and add to the primary. Add the k-meta which will kill the bacteria AND the wild yeast. Wait 24 hours before pitching the yeast after the K-Meta has dissipated some. Ferment on the skins for best color- for about 5 days. You can press it at that time. Be sure to check the SG at that point. You can start the MLF at that time or wait until later. DO NOT add any more k-meta until the MLF is done. You can use an Accuvin test to check for completion. When there is a 0 reading on the malic acid, it is done. You can oak it some, but don't use a lot. Frontenac can be used to make a dry red, a semi-sweet wine or even a very spirited Port.


Good luck with it. I am sure you will have plenty of questions and I will try to take the time to answer them for you.


PS, My Frontenac have just started Veraison and won't be ready for picking for another month!

 

[Kathey_RN]

Thanks for the pointers. We are getting the grapes from a guy who is starting a vinyard (hes a dr) but does not want to do the work of making the wine himself. He is waiting until next year to actually start the wine process so we have free reign to pick whatever we want. We are going out there saturday and will check them to see where they are at. Thanks for the tips and you know there will be more questions to follow! At least I have a starting point!


kathy

 

[Kathey_RN]

Your right, we tested the red grapes and the brix were not even close. I did not test the ph due to the fact the brix was not even close yet. We did test the white wine grapes and they are on the money. Our press arrives wednesday or thursday so we are going to wait till next weekend to start.


When you were talking about adding to the primary, what exactly are you talking about? I have read about first runs and second runs, but nothing about primary.


kathy

 

[grapeman]

The primary is the first vessel that you start the wine in. Depending on quantity it can be a bucket made for this, or a larger container such as one of the 32 gallon Rubbermaid Brute containers that hold 32 gallons (less actually to allow for the cap to rise).


What variety are the whites?

 

[Kathey_RN]

Not sure on the white, he could not remember what the white is and was going to get back to me on that one. Part of the reason I was holding out. Everything was right but thought one more week would help the PH come up a little more. It is 32 right now. SG is 1.08. Balling 20. I work Tuesday so will hopefully see him to ask again. Thanks again for all your help!!
Kathy

 

[Kathey_RN]

We are still not sure what grapes are what. We get the impression the owner of the grapes does not know either which makes this even more of a challange. The Total Acid is high so I have used a little Calcium Carbonate to help lower it. Have not checked it yet but a guy at a local wine supply store said not to adjust it till after the fermentation. He told me that the grapes around here are hybrids that loose some of their acid during the fermentation. What do you think?

 

[grapeman]

You can eat up some acid with the right yeast, but it isn't much. I don't like to adjust whites first- jsut get as ripe as possible to minimize starting acids. Ferment it and if you can, cold stabilize it to drop excess acids. You can then use a bit of potassium carbonate which is safer than calcium carbonate, if needed. Most whites with some acids balance out well by just sweetening up a bit. I find around 1.000 to 1.005 just takes the edge off and preserves the fruity esters. My gold medal winning LaCrescent started with a TA of 14 g/L and was sweetened to 1.002. Just be sure to add the k-meta and a bit of k sorbate before sweetening.

 

[Kathey_RN]

My next question. I picked some sevyal blanc and marquette grapes last friday. I pitched the sevyal blanc with a yeast the I now read does not like ML fermentation. I read that it needs to be fermented with the ML bacteria. What do I do now?


Also I got some Marquette grapes. I don't know anything about it other than it can be made dry or sweetened. I am going to try both. Know anything about these?


thanks appleman!

 

[grapeman]

You don't want to do a ML on the Seval anyways so it isn't a problem. When fermentation is complete, be sure to add adequate k-meta to prevent a spontaneous ML.


Marquette is a nice grape for cold climates. I hope the brix was 25-26 at harvest- that makes the best wine from it. TA will be about 11-12 g/L and pH in the 3.2 something range. Use a good yeast for fruity reds - ask you supplier for recommendations, I can check later and see what I use. Ferment on the skins a few days and then press. You will want to do a ML on this one. Oak is optional. It will develop cherry flavors with some tannins. Hope this quick bit helps.

 

[Kathey_RN]

The Brix was 24 ph 3.2 or 3.3. acid level 12.6 and SG 1.082. I used a Red Star Pasteur Red on one bucket and a Red Star Premier Cuvee on the other. Pitched the yeast Sunday night and have been punching down the must cap 3 times a day.







Again thanks for all your help!


kathy

 

[AlFulchino]

just curious...where are you located that the frontenac are ready now?

 

[grapeman]

Marquette would have gotten a bit riper and would have been fruitier , but those aren't bad numbers. It may end up with a slight green pepper or vegetal flavor - but I hope not. The riper, the better with Marquette. Ours are at 22 Brix right now and we don't plant to harvest them for about 3 weeks.


That yeast will work alright. Good luck. I hope it turns out better than your expectations.

 

[Kathey_RN]

The Frontanec were not ready but the person who I got them from insisted that I picked them already! I did not pay for them and for a trial and error run, why not.


I also had to pick the Marquettes also when I was told they were ready. The vineyard that I bought them from had the Hispanic groups coming in to pick so I really didn't get much of a choice there either. But at least they are closer than the Frontanec. Guess that is the advantage of growing your own grapes, you get to pick them when you want.


My husband I & are actually wanting to grow grapes but not really sure what we are in for so we are taking one step at a time! Besides the fact we live in the hole of america when it comes to growing grapes we like. Weather here is so harsh that the varieties my husband loves does not grow well here. I do love the Catabaw grape and it does grow great here but I don't want a vineyard of just that variety.

 

[grapeman]

Where was it that you were from (not an exact location unless you want)? There is hardly a region in the country that can't grow grapes to make decent wine from.


Best of Show Red for the first International Cold Climate Grapes wine comptetion was made across Lake Champlain from me in Vermont by an aquaintence with Marquette. He won several other medals as did a few others in Vermont. You can't get a lot colder than that now can you? Don't rule out growing grapes yet!

 

[Kathey_RN]

We currently live in Grand Island, Nebraska. The soil is suited more for corn, beans and wheat. We are so flat that the winds blow hard and cold during the winter killing a lot of the better grapes. Hot during the summer too. We know we cannot grow the good Cabs, that is why we are trying some of the varietals around, see what we can grow that we like!

 

[Kathey_RN]

In detailing the box vs using fresh red grapes, why do we not add the Malolactic Bacteria to the box wine kits but we are suppose to with the fresh grape juices? In my readings, it says that you normally add this bacteria to most all reds and a very few whites. One of them you said (appleman) not to add the bacteria. So my question is, how do you know which ones to add them too and which one you don't. I know in my reading you don't have to add the bacteria to any of them if you like the acidy flavors, but how do you really know unless you have made that particular one before? ps. thanks appleman for all your help. My wine smells great so far! Just checked the SG of them and can't wait until they are all finished!

 

[grapeman]

First of all the kits do not recommend using malocactic on them because they are already balanced properly and they feel there is too much room for error by using them.


You can tell which wines benefit from it's use through testing for TA (amount of acidity) and malic acid. The MLF eats up the malic acid and converts it to a gentler lactic acid. This reduces the overall acid, which benefits these high acid wines. Many of the reds benefit from it as it makes more complex flavors, etc. Whites are a stylistic choice, meaning the basic wine style they are made in. Some Chardonnays, etc can use it to make them rounder and smoother- or buttery.

 

[Kathey_RN]

I have tested all 4 of my reds and my two Marquettes have less than 30 Malic acid. The other two (? Frontenac & ?? other)have about 160. The bacteria was pitched about the same time. I don't really have any reading material about what to do now. I am assuming I add the K+sulfite to the finished ones and then fine. How long should it take for the other two to finished with the bacteria? The Marquette has such a cherry smell to it that it is unbelievable!

 

[grapeman]

I would let the Marquette sit for about two weeks more to be sure the malo is totally done. At that point rack it to a clean carboy and add 1/4 tsp k-meta or even a bit more-maybe 3/8 tsp per 6 gallon carboy. You probably won't need finings added, just let it bulk age a few months and rack it again. Check for sediment. When no nore drops, bottle it.


The Frontenac will likely need another month or two to finish up malo. Give the carboy a bit of a spin to disturb the lees and help feed the mlb. When it tests done, check the TA again. If it is still too high you way want to use a bit of potassium chloride to reduce it a bit more.