fresh grapes vs. wine kit?
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All the work has been done for you with a kit. Just follow the instructions and add the ingredient packets at the times called for and it should turn out reasonably well every time.
If you don't mind some extra work you can grow or buy grapes. Then you need to destem them and crush them. For the whites you press them and put in the fermenter. Then you need to test for brix(sugar), pH, and TA. Make any needed adjustments. This is now about the same point that you began the kit.
Reds ar just a little more work. You ferment first after optional cold soaking. This extracts the tannins and colors. Once fermentation is almost complete, you press it, let it settle and rack to your secondary. Now you proceed like you would a kit(after testing and making corrections). A lot of reds benefit from Malo Lactic Fermentation after primary fermentation. It reduces the acidity and adds to the character of the wine. You also decide what oaks you might want and for how long.
So you can see there is a BIG difference between the kits and fresh grapes, but when you are done, you get the satisfaction of knowing you controlled your wine's outcome every step of the way. Hopefully they turn out at least good and if you are lucky, you get a great wine!
If you don't mind some extra work you can grow or buy grapes. Then you need to destem them and crush them. For the whites you press them and put in the fermenter. Then you need to test for brix(sugar), pH, and TA. Make any needed adjustments. This is now about the same point that you began the kit.
Reds ar just a little more work. You ferment first after optional cold soaking. This extracts the tannins and colors. Once fermentation is almost complete, you press it, let it settle and rack to your secondary. Now you proceed like you would a kit(after testing and making corrections). A lot of reds benefit from Malo Lactic Fermentation after primary fermentation. It reduces the acidity and adds to the character of the wine. You also decide what oaks you might want and for how long.
So you can see there is a BIG difference between the kits and fresh grapes, but when you are done, you get the satisfaction of knowing you controlled your wine's outcome every step of the way. Hopefully they turn out at least good and if you are lucky, you get a great wine!
I've wondered about this as well. In my limited reading, I've learned about fermenting red musts on the skins to extract color, tannins, etc. How do they accomplish this in the juice kits since there are no grape skins? Is there a significant difference?
Dean
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In a must, we get the tannins, phenols, and color usually doing a cold soak for a few days, all depending on the varietal, ripeness, and acid. After that, we warm it up and pitch the yeast.
In a kit, the manufacturers have a process whereby they can extract color and phenols with heat as they make a must, then evaporate the excess water using centrifugal force and heat. After they have this concentrate, they mix it with juice, balance the acids, add extra oenological tannin that has been extracted from grapes and seeds, and call it a kit. All you need to do is add water.
The difference can be huge, but there are a few things that come to mind right up front.
Grape wines take time. Period. They also take testing, extra steps and organisms (like MLF), equipment, crushers/destemmers, presses, barrels, etc. After all that, if you know what you are doing, or even just lucky, you can end up with a fantastic wine! Or you can end up with something resembling vinegar you wouldn't even want to rub in an enemy's wound.
Now with kits, a lot of that work is done for you, and if you practice good wine practices and cleanliness, you will always end up with a consistent product that closely resembles their commercial counterparts. Not that kits typically have lower alcohol (12 - 13 %), and much lower tannins. This makes them age easy and makes a very drinkable wine within a year. Heck, they are even almost drinkable after 2 months.
Grape wines, on the other hand, take a very long time to even start to taste good. Wines under 2 years, done the traditional way have high tannins, high acid, that make them taste like crap! However, after a few years in tanks and barrels, they start to mellow out, become concentrated, and start to taste like $100 wines!
There is a big difference, but both have very significant merrits.
In a kit, the manufacturers have a process whereby they can extract color and phenols with heat as they make a must, then evaporate the excess water using centrifugal force and heat. After they have this concentrate, they mix it with juice, balance the acids, add extra oenological tannin that has been extracted from grapes and seeds, and call it a kit. All you need to do is add water.
The difference can be huge, but there are a few things that come to mind right up front.
Grape wines take time. Period. They also take testing, extra steps and organisms (like MLF), equipment, crushers/destemmers, presses, barrels, etc. After all that, if you know what you are doing, or even just lucky, you can end up with a fantastic wine! Or you can end up with something resembling vinegar you wouldn't even want to rub in an enemy's wound.
Now with kits, a lot of that work is done for you, and if you practice good wine practices and cleanliness, you will always end up with a consistent product that closely resembles their commercial counterparts. Not that kits typically have lower alcohol (12 - 13 %), and much lower tannins. This makes them age easy and makes a very drinkable wine within a year. Heck, they are even almost drinkable after 2 months.
Grape wines, on the other hand, take a very long time to even start to taste good. Wines under 2 years, done the traditional way have high tannins, high acid, that make them taste like crap! However, after a few years in tanks and barrels, they start to mellow out, become concentrated, and start to taste like $100 wines!
There is a big difference, but both have very significant merrits.
joeswine
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JWMINNESOTA
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Those differences are what keep me so interested in this hobby. While I do enjoy the kits, predictable outcome, little space required, I find the fruit wines a little more interesting to make due to the fact that you control all the variables, and its always fun to try and hit the final product you planned on making. Someday, to be able to grow a few vines like Appleman and a few others would be a dream come true as far as the hobby goes, to completely control the entire process from vineyard to bottle would be challenging, and hopefully rewarding.
Thanks all. Job demands probably won't allow me to work with grapes for at least a couplemore years, but the kits I've started are a lot of fun. Hopefully they'll yield something drinkable. If so, I'll definitely have to look into a closet cellar or some other storage option. Yuma, AZ get really hot in the summer.
When I began reading about home winemaking, my resource book assumed the reader was starting with fresh grapes, although it had a chapter on kits as well.So I approached my first two kits determined to follow the roadmap provided in my book, and I viewed the directions that came in the kits with skepticism.From reading this forum, I now understand that the kit directions are important. Hopefully my second two kits (fermenting now) will work out, since I followed the kit directions. I too dream of someday being involved in the whole process, from vine to bottle. Maybe after I retire.
When I began reading about home winemaking, my resource book assumed the reader was starting with fresh grapes, although it had a chapter on kits as well.So I approached my first two kits determined to follow the roadmap provided in my book, and I viewed the directions that came in the kits with skepticism.From reading this forum, I now understand that the kit directions are important. Hopefully my second two kits (fermenting now) will work out, since I followed the kit directions. I too dream of someday being involved in the whole process, from vine to bottle. Maybe after I retire.
I started with a Heron Bay 6-week Sauvignon Blanc kit and cold fermented it, taking a few days longer than the kit recommended. I tested the acid prior to fermentation and made a huge mistake which led me to add quite a bit of tartaric. Having realized my mistake, I treated with Calcium Carbonate after fermentation. This wine has just finished clarifying, and I'm supposed to rack it again today.
I had also ordered a Santa Clara Cabernet Sauvignon Aseptic Juice kit, but it arrived a week later than the first kit. Also, I don't think it actually came as a kit because I never saw any directions. I added sugar to the must to raise the brix to 23.5 and fermented it in an open container, keeping the tempat about 80 degrees with a heating blanket, per my guidebook. It went much more quickly than the white, and since there was no "cap" to punch down, I frequently stirred it during fermentation to mix in the thick head of foam. I used no bentonite or other clarifier, but the "gross lees" seem to have settled out on their own. I'm due to rack it again next weekend, at which time I plan to add oak chips and bulk age it for four months.
I'm now fermenting a Wine Expert 6-week Viognier and a Mosti Mondiale Sangiovese Aseptic juice. I'm following the kit instructions on these except than I'm cold fermenting the Viognier.
I had also ordered a Santa Clara Cabernet Sauvignon Aseptic Juice kit, but it arrived a week later than the first kit. Also, I don't think it actually came as a kit because I never saw any directions. I added sugar to the must to raise the brix to 23.5 and fermented it in an open container, keeping the tempat about 80 degrees with a heating blanket, per my guidebook. It went much more quickly than the white, and since there was no "cap" to punch down, I frequently stirred it during fermentation to mix in the thick head of foam. I used no bentonite or other clarifier, but the "gross lees" seem to have settled out on their own. I'm due to rack it again next weekend, at which time I plan to add oak chips and bulk age it for four months.
I'm now fermenting a Wine Expert 6-week Viognier and a Mosti Mondiale Sangiovese Aseptic juice. I'm following the kit instructions on these except than I'm cold fermenting the Viognier.
JWMINNESOTA
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K&GB said:
I spent many summer nights fishing along the Colorado just north of Yuma up by the army proving grounds, then along the canals in Welton. Dome valley would be a great place to grow some grapes.Edited by: JWMINNESOTA
Perhaps one day I'll "discover" the beauty of Arizona, but my recent transfer to Yuma hasn't exactly thrilled me. After six years in the San Diego area, my wife and I are convinced we've moved to Hell. Only now, Hell seems to be close to freezing over...lol. Guess we've been kinda spoiled throughout my military career. Starting in the DFW area of TX, I've been stationed in Memphis, Jacksonville NC, backto Dallas, TX, Hawaii, Corpus Christi TX, San Diego, and now Yuma AZ. Best job I've had in 22 years but definitely the worst location. Like good wine, maybemy attitude willmellow as time passes...
Yuma is at the southwestern most tip of Arizona, just over the state line from California along Hwy 8. There is one wine tasting room in town that I'm aware of, but I've only been there once so far. Not sure what my favorite style is. I tend to gravitate toward full bodied reds, but I enjoy a wide variety of both reds and whites. Haven't delved into fruit wines yet. My wife and I drove to San Diego yesterday to visit my daughter and her fiance, who just graduated from college. We took him out for Sushi and wound up at a wine bar afterwards where I tasted a flight of "intense" reds. Came away with a bottle of Gouguenheim Malbec from Argentina that was really superb.
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