First time using oak chips - Questions

[racinjason1978]

Hello All,

Disclaimer: I have searched and read the forum and have found many different results on oaking.

If you don't want to read all below, here's the short and quick:

-How long can I leave my oak chips in my carboy? Do I HAVE to take them out? Put them in along with yeast on day 1...usually leave in carboy for 6 mons.

Long version and history:

I just joined the forum. Brief intro: Fam has been making wine since 1999. I got my own American oak barrel in '04. Ive made Merlot, Cab Sav, Cab/Merlot, Syrah, and White Merlot over the years.

This year Im trying oak chips in my carboy (not in my barrel). I am making Malbec. So my questions are:

- How long do the chips stay in?
- Will it hurt to leave them in until I bottle?
- Do they stop "oaking" after a certain period?

Here's my plan/process (please let me know if I am way off course):

I just put the juice into the carboy this saturday (5 gals). I used approx 1.5 oz of oak chips (pre soaked for about 30-45 mins) Then, I wrapped the soaked chips in cheese cloth and tied fishing line (all sterilized) to make a tube and put it into the carboy during primary fermentation. I don't like to let any air hit the wine until I bottle, so my main question is if it is okay to leave the chips in until I bottle (approx 6 months from now)? What are the consequences? I have read that the chips only oak for so long and that If added during primary fermentation, that it's hard to "over oak" if they are added during this time.

Thoughts??

 

[M1wino]

My best advice is to "oak to taste" meaning every so often take a taste and when your happy your done. Hope that helps perhaps others will have some ideas as well

 

[djrockinsteve]

I oak after the wine has cleared. I'll add between 4-8 ounces by weight to a 5 gallon batch. It will remain in until it has aged a year.

Start off with a little then add more each year until you find what you like.

 

[racinjason1978]

Thanks for the replies.

The heart of what I am looking to find out is that if the oak chips actually stop releasing the oak flavor (i would guess when they are saturated). If so approx how long does that take? And also, is there any harm in keeping them in the carboy until after they have stopped to reduce air exposure to the wine.

Thanks again!

 

[winemaker_3352]

Welcome aboard!!!

I like to add oak during fermentation - then as it is aging if i need more oak - I will add some then...

 

[racinjason1978]

Good to know...I wasn't sure if it was okay to add during this period. I think I am going to leave the chips in until I am ready to bottle...(approx 6 months from now). I only used 1.5 oz of chips for 5 gal carboy...so hopefully all will turn out okay. I have also read that the oak flavor "settles down" after a while in the bottle, so a bit over should be okay for me.

 

[djrockinsteve]

I believe all or the majority of the flavor is extracted over a few weeks. No harm in leaving in longer. I leave mine in until I back sweeten before bottling.

 

[racinjason1978]

Awesome! I wanted to hear confirmation from someone who has left their chips in until they were ready to expose the wine. Thank you for the reply.

 

[Wiz]

On the recommendation of George of Fine Wines I am oaking 24 gallons of cab sauv. with 1 oz. of medium toast French oak chips per 5 gallons for 2 weeks. I will be removing the chips, stirring and tasting this weekend. Will decide at that point if another oaking with cips is needed.

 

[BeerAlchemist]

From a brewers perspective, oak flavor is dependent upon surface area. So, something like a chip will give off a lot of oak flavor rapidly; however, there are other aspects of oak that I am looking for that seem to come out over time. To get enough of that character without overpowering in oak requires less surface area so something like an oak cube is better for me. If I use something with less surface area that won't over oak, I can leave it on for months (right now I have a barley wine that will sit on oak cubes for 6 months before I serve) and the advantage is that is that I get a much smoother rounded oak character that melds seemlessly with the beer instead of getting a distinct oak character sitting next to a distinct beer character that I get with lots of surface area.

From what I have so far learned, I am guessing this is synonymous with what I have heard people call "layering" the oak. I know there is likely to be some difference between wine and beer. But, I think there is much overlap so hopefully there is some validity to that and something for you to think about. I would love to hear perspectives from experienced wine makers on my thoughts.

 

[robie]

The amount of oaking you like may be very different from what others may like. I would never blindly add oak and simply leave it in until I rack/bottle. I would at least periodically taste. However, if you have added the same tip of oak (chips, cubes, ..etc.) before in a similar wine and already know what to expect, that is another thing.

If you over oak a wine, you are pretty much stuck with the results, so keep that in mind.

 

[Wiz]

On a previous post I stated that George gave me information that when using medium toast French chips use 1 oz. for 2 weeks in which time period the oak flavor would be completely removed from the chips. I removed and tasted today after 2 weeks and tasted no oak after stirring. Added another ounce today. What have other people found as to quantity of chips to use for 5 gallons and for how long?

 

[djrockinsteve]

I have used from 2 to 8 ounces for 10 months.

 

[Wiz]

Steve, could you taste the oak using 2 ounces? How long did you leave the chips in?

Thanks.

 

[pjd]

I typically add 4 oz. and start tasting once a week after 2 weeks exposure. Most wines i remove the chips at 4 weeks some go as long as 6 weeks it depends on the wine.

 

[djrockinsteve]

Steve, could you taste the oak using 2 ounces? How long did you leave the chips in?

Thanks.

My deep reds I use more oak while some whites or fruits I use a small amount of med. toast oak/American. All contain the oak the full aging time. Usually 6-10 months.

Yes you can taste the oak.

 

[saddlebronze]

The Oak extraction is complete after 3 weeks from all that I have read. I use between 2 and 4 ounces of Chips for 6 gallons, but I like light oak. Most of the upper end kits have a few ounces of oak dust that extracts quicker, but the effect is the same. I like medium toast French Oak and medium toast American Oak mixed together for a total of 4 ounces or so.

 

[hobbyiswine]

I followed the instructions on the bag for oak cubes and oak spirals in a couple of wines. I remember the bag of cubes was 2.5 ounces and stated it was for 5-6 gallons. I left it for 6 weeks tasting periodically then bottled. Now that it has been bottled a few months it really doesnt seem to have much if any oak flavor. Same scenario when i used medium toast spirals. Seems to me that the amount of oak needs to be increased to get much flavor or at least use heavy toast if only adding a couple ounces. I will be increasing my oak doses to at least 4-6oz or more for 6 gallon batches.

 

[Wiz]

Last year I made 24 gallon cab sauv. using an imported Italian concentrate. I also used medium toast French oak cubes. The oak seemed to mellow the fairly raw taste of the new wine. I left it in for the recommended 2 months.

This year I am making same and inadvertently ordered oak chips. I added 4 oz. per 5 gallons, left in for 3 weeks and wine still tastes raw and I don't really know if I am tasting the oak or not beause of the taste of the new wine. The wine is still pretty raw and hasn't mellowed out like last year. Any suggestions?