Finished wine in carboy and still has gas.

[jody]

I just did a 4 week kit. I haven't done one in a while and I didn't degas all the way. I didn't notice until now that it is done and there is a little fizz on the tongue.

Is there anything I can do to release the gas now?

I have low temps in my wine making area 60-65F, which may have been my problem when degassing, I should have used my heat belt to bring the temp up.

 

[Just-a-Guy]

See esp post #9.

http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/f5/how-long-does-take-most-degass-wine-38878/

 

[Boatboy24]

If it is still in the carboy, time will help; along with getting that temp up, as you mentioned. You can still degas by stirring, racking with a vacuum pump, or using a brake bleeder.

 

[jody]

If it is still in the carboy, time will help; along with getting that temp up, as you mentioned. You can still degas by stirring, racking with a vacuum pump, or using a brake bleeder.

Ok great thanks. I'll most likely use the brew belt. Maybe give it another month in the carboy. How long should I apply the heat? I can rack it again no problem.

Can I use my drill powered stirrer? I have a vacuum hand pump as well.

There is a little sediment in the bottom(I plan on filtering) is it ok to get that a ll stirred up? I suppose I can get rid of most of that with a rack.

 

[Tenbears]

Co2 tends to come out of solution faster at warmer temperatures, because of the expansion caused by the heat. The less Co2 in the wine the longer it tales to completely come out. I am a mead guy, as such I rarely mechanically degas. some take up to 6 months to degas. Even though a kit may boast being a 30 day kit, environmental factors can always play a role in the time. Winter low pressure ridges actually help.

 

[jody]

Co2 tends to come out of solution faster at warmer temperatures, because of the expansion caused by the heat. The less Co2 in the wine the longer it tales to completely come out. I am a mead guy, as such I rarely mechanically degas. some take up to 6 months to degas. Even though a kit may boast being a 30 day kit, environmental factors can always play a role in the time. Winter low pressure ridges actually help.

Makes sense. I only do the 4 week kits and at the rate my wife and I go through our batches(I haven't been able to get ahead), I cannot wait too long after the 30 days.

I am doing a few more kits this winter, do you think I should keep the brew belt on for the whole 30 days? I usually only use it when fermenting in the bucket for the first week.

 

[richmke]

When do you want to drink the wine?

If you have time, let the temp stay low, and let time do the work for you.

 

[ibglowin]

No, the solubility of a gas in a solution decreases with increasing temperature. So as you warm things up CO2 becomes less soluble and comes out of solution.

You can perform this experiment with an open can of pop in the refrigerator vs left out on the counter top over night.

Co2 tends to come out of solution faster at warmer temperatures, because of the expansion caused by the heat.

 

[Tenbears]

No, the solubility of a gas in a solution decreases with increasing temperature. So as you warm things up CO2 becomes less soluble and comes out of solution.

You can perform this experiment with an open can of pop in the refrigerator vs left out on the counter top over night.

And Your point is? The solubility of gases is related to pressure. as pressure increases the volume of a gas decreases, and visa versa,
See Boyle's law. Boyle's Law states that the product of the pressure and volume for a gas is a constant for a fixed amount of gas at a fixed temperature
At lower temperatures the molecular density of a liquid is greater and thus exerts a grater pressure on soluble gasses holding them in solution. as temperatures increases volume of the liquid increases. Due to expansion The expanding molecular density of the liquid decreases pressure on the soluble gas allowing it to come out of solution.

 

[jody]

When do you want to drink the wine?

If you have time, let the temp stay low, and let time do the work for you.

I am looking to bottle very soon. The gas doesn't bother my wife and I so much since it is faint. I am concerned with the corks popping out.

We can always decant when we open the bottle.

 

[grapeman]

Ok great thanks. I'll most likely use the brew belt. Maybe give it another month in the carboy. How long should I apply the heat? I can rack it again no problem.

Can I use my drill powered stirrer? I have a vacuum hand pump as well.

There is a little sediment in the bottom(I plan on filtering) is it ok to get that a ll stirred up? I suppose I can get rid of most of that with a rack.

Rack the wine off the sediment. Even during that process some gas will come out. I would warm it up for a few days before racking. Once racked you can let it sit in the carboy for a while or even use the drill stir to degas some more.

 

[ibglowin]

And Your point is?

To correct misinformation.

 

[ibglowin]

Alas this is not a Boyle's Law problem. It is a problem for Henry's Law.

And Your point is? The solubility of gases is related to pressure. as pressure increases the volume of a gas decreases, and visa versa,
See Boyle's law. Boyle's Law states that the product of the pressure and volume for a gas is a constant for a fixed amount of gas at a fixed temperature
At lower temperatures the molecular density of a liquid is greater and thus exerts a grater pressure on soluble gasses holding them in solution. as temperatures increases volume of the liquid increases. Due to expansion The expanding molecular density of the liquid decreases pressure on the soluble gas allowing it to come out of solution.

 

[heatherd]

I am looking to bottle very soon. The gas doesn't bother my wife and I so much since it is faint. I am concerned with the corks popping out.

We can always decant when we open the bottle.

To bottle sooner, which is the goal, I would splash rack, then degass by stirring however you want (by hand or by drill) until you get the gas out. It doesn't need to take months if you degas aggressively. If you have a vacuum pump, that works too.

There is a test you can do to check for gas, as well, that does not require anything more than shaking up a sample.

Bottom line, you can get the gas out and still bottle soon.

Heather

 

[GaDawg]

You can buy commercial wine put a little in a test tube and shake. You will still get a little gas and foam. You should not worry about a little gas and foam. Some folks forget that the point of making wine at home is to have fun!

 

[Stressbaby]

And Your point is? The solubility of gases is related to pressure. as pressure increases the volume of a gas decreases, and visa versa,
See Boyle's law. Boyle's Law states that the product of the pressure and volume for a gas is a constant for a fixed amount of gas at a fixed temperature
At lower temperatures the molecular density of a liquid is greater and thus exerts a grater pressure on soluble gasses holding them in solution. as temperatures increases volume of the liquid increases. Due to expansion The expanding molecular density of the liquid decreases pressure on the soluble gas allowing it to come out of solution.

I don't think Boyle's law or volume of the liquid really have anything to do with it.

As gases dissolve and the gas molecule interacts with the solvent, heat is released (exothermic reaction). Apply heat and you add the thermal energy necessary to break the bonds between the gas molecule and the solvent, and the gas comes out of the solution.

Edited to apologize for missing the follow up posts.

 

[richmke]

The solubility of gasses in water decreases as the temperature increases
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/gases-solubility-water-d_1148.html

 

[Tenbears]

Are you serious? An exothermic reaction is a chemical or physical reaction that releases heat. It gives out energy to its surroundings. The energy needed for the reaction to occur is less that the energy it creates Where would the chemical reaction be? What chemicals are at work in this situation. What would be the physical reaction be? What energy is produced? The warming of wine is via convection and most certainly NOT by exothermic reaction.

But do not feel bad as Henry's law is not appropriate either. Henry's law is one of the gas laws formulated by William Henry in 1803. It states: "At a constant temperature, the amount of a given gas that dissolves in a given type and volume of liquid is directly proportional to the partial pressure of that gas in equilibrium with that liquid." An equivalent way of stating the law is that the solubility of a gas in a liquid is directly proportional to the partial pressure of the gas above the liquid.
Since once the wine is uncapped the gas above the wine is air, which is comprised of 78% nitrogen, 21% oxygen and 1% other, (Rare and transitional gases). Where henry's law appropriate in this instance then all one would have to whisk the co2 from atop the wine and it would decrease to less than 1/10 0f 1% Since the Co2 in the wine is introduced to it through an non atmospheric driving force it's partial pressure is not in equilibrium with atmospheric pressure but rather that of the driving force of its origin, (The fermentation process.) and is contained within the liquid in solution by atmospheric pressure, and the pressure exerted by the medium It is called saturation. A gas can only saturate a liquid to the equivalent of the external pressure. this is why when the external pressure is reduced, as in the case of using a vacuum pump the Co2 rapidly comes out of solution becomes gaseous.
But we are not talking about what gas in solution will became in time, and why. We are discussing the facilitated release gas in solution by increased temperatures.
The nucleolus of the atoms of the molecules of the medium are slowed by lower temperatures, until the medium reaches absolute zero -459.67F at which point activity ceases. As the temperatures are reduced the molecules are constricted, creating a denser medium. The increased density of the medium has an inherent tendency to hold gas in solution because it has a sort of squeezing effect on the gas. Inversely as temperature increases nucleic action increases resulting in expansions of the molecules, creating a for lack of a better term looser medium. this decreased density allows, and in some cases forces the gas out of solution. This is exactly why Henry's law and Boyle's law state "at a constant temperature". the constriction and expansion of molecules within the medium have a separate effect on the gas and both scholars knew that.
In time Henry's law will take effect. Over a period of time the CO2 in solution within the wine dissipates in accordance with Henry's law since the air above it contains less than 1/10 of 1% co2 then the co2 in solution within that wine will be approximately 1/10 of 1%.

 

[jody]

Rack the wine off the sediment. Even during that process some gas will come out. I would warm it up for a few days before racking. Once racked you can let it sit in the carboy for a while or even use the drill stir to degas some more.

I got the brew belt on yesterday. And I only have the temp up to 66F(19C). I have the belt 1/3 of the way down the carboy(as the instructions said, but that was only for the bucket). The wine feels warmer above the belt. I am thinking as heat rises maybe I should put the belt further down the carboy?

I will take your advice and rack when I get the temp up. And drill power stir.

Thanks

To bottle sooner, which is the goal, I would splash rack, then degass by stirring however you want (by hand or by drill) until you get the gas out. It doesn't need to take months if you degas aggressively. If you have a vacuum pump, that works too.

There is a test you can do to check for gas, as well, that does not require anything more than shaking up a sample.

Bottom line, you can get the gas out and still bottle soon.

Heather

By splash rack you mean keep the racking tubing at the neck and let it splash down?

I usually use the vacum pump to check if I have all the gas out, but I can see how it could be useful to remove the gas.

I will also use the shake test as you said.

Thanks!

 

[grapeman]

jody I am glad that you are using the simple answers to your simple yet very good question.

While discussion of this is good it went way over a simple answer jody needed. It certainly does not need to determine if it works because of any certain law such as Boyle's law, etc. If that discussion is wanted please open your own thread dealing with it, but in any event keep the discussion friendly and informative. Jody doesn't need to feel overwhelmed and confused.

Thank you all for understanding this and please keep any personal differences out of this.