Elementary school shooting

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So what we just do nothing, give up???????
There is plenty that can be done but changing laws does nothing but make people FEEL better. Many drugs are illegal but as we all know the laws do little to curb bad people from doing bad things with them. Laws keep good people from doing bad things.

What we do is provide better security and training. In this case it probably would have been tough to stop no matter what as this kid is known in the school. His Mom worked at the school. He probably could have sneaked guns in his clothing or a backpack.
 
First, let me say that I am heartsick for the people who lost loved ones in this tragedy. None of us can begin to imagine the unspeakable pain and suffering they are now experiencing.

As to what to do about such tragedies, I do not think there is an answer that will completely eliminate them. Early detection, identification and treatment of a disturbed individual seems to be the only reliable method and even that does not always succeed. I am, however, convinced that gun control is not a solution. Criminals are by definition non-lawabiding individuals who ignore laws and laws to prohibit criminal acts do little to irradicate them. Prohibition did not stop people from selling, buying and consuming alcohol, speeding laws are routinely ignored, banks are still robbed, people are murdered and people cheat on their income taxes, just to cite a few examples. I don't have a solution and I think the root of the problem is societal and perhaps therein lies the answer. It is going to take some out of the box thinking because none of the bromides are working.
 
Mainstreaming mental illness and liberal judges letting evil walk free is a far larger issue than gun laws. Its very complex and requires difficult desitions that lawmakers are most often reluctant to tackle. Easier to blame a gun than a broken system. And today a bunch of five and six year olds paid the ultimate price and their families will never heal. My wife is retired kindergarden teacher and our hearts ache tonight.
 
Derek you hit it on the head, the laws make people feel more secure, but do nothing to control those that obtain weapons illegally.
Mike, I agree that we have to do something, but to be honest, the school system is responsible for our childrens safety, we live in an upscale neighborhood, Dr's, lawyers,very expensive area, still...we have police in the school at the front door.
Could this have stopped this social deviant....probably not, but it could have deterred him from doing it at the school, maybe he would have taken a shot at his mother in a different location, maybe it would have made him stop long enough to think about the consequences... The school failed those children as much as the system failed them.

My children are my life, period, I cannot even imagine, nor do I ever want to feel the pain that the parents are going through, and those poor kids that survived will never be the same, but once again, you need to be 21 in CT to get a pistol permit, this nut job was 20, nothing that any new law would have been written to do would have stopped him, it only hurts the rest of us and makes us all look like Sociopaths.

We need to get back to the days that parents could discipline their kids, how many times did any of you hear about a school getting shot up as you were growing up?
I know for one that if I got out of line, my father would "correct" me, there is no respect for the fellow man these days, and I feel that this is the core issue.

Anyway, non of this will bring back those poor children, may God bless their souls.
 
I'm not going to get into the gun law debate right now. There will be time for that argument. I have my opinions on that and they are very stubborn as am I. Right now we should be thinking of the families of the slain children and giving them all the support and prayers that we can. I can't even begin to imagine the pain that they are feeling. My heart goes out to them. Words will not comfort them, but all I can say is that my family and I are here for any that a shoulder. This goes beyond belief, comprehension, political views, or spiritual beliefs. No child should suffer a terror like those young ones did today!!! They will forever be in our prayers and thoughts!!

I can only think that if that school had an armed guard, armed principle, or even an armed teacher that the children might have been spared. I'm not even hinting that the lives of the adults that were lost today are worth any less. I'm saying that there needs to be some way for honest law abiding people to defend themselves against the degenerates of society. Enough is enough!!!!!!! (Sorry, I couldn't stop myself. I had to say something.)
 
i as well cannot even begin to imagine the pain these parents are experiencing.....trying to imagine it and understand how in the world a person could actually stand there, look at a CHILD, and pull the trigger....i will not get into any gun control debates either at this time....all i can tell you is that tragedy made me definitely give the "lil ones" one hell of a big hug when i got home from work yesterday....i may only be their foster dad right now, but to them I AM DADDY, and they ARE MY KIDS.....they are the same age as the unfortunate ones, and to think that the same thing could have happened to them sent cold chills up and down my spine and made me thank heaven...there is absolutely no reason an event as horrific as this should EVER happen....being a parent now, my thoughts and prayers are definitely with those had the misfortune of having to deal with this tragedy....
 
It doesn't make sense to me that some people, hearing about what happened, immediately voice their concern about constitutional rights. What a crock of bull. There is no reason - including the Constitution - why people should be able to purchase an unlimited amount of guns, clips, and bullets. Guns that shoot 30 rounds faster than you can count to 30.

I am hopeful this tragedy will force movement toward sensible gun control. It will happen and the country will be better for it.
 
It doesn't make sense to me that some people, hearing about what happened, immediately voice their concern about constitutional rights. What a crock of bull. There is no reason - including the Constitution - why people should be able to purchase an unlimited amount of guns, clips, and bullets. Guns that shoot 30 rounds faster than you can count to 30.

I am hopeful this tragedy will force movement toward sensible gun control. It will happen and the country will be better for it.

You do know the 2nd amendment has NOTHING to do about hunting and target shooting right?

The highlighted words in your post are EXACTLY the reason the founding fathers wrote the 2nd amendment.
 
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I started this thread because of a horrible incident that happen, NOT to debate whether or not we should have gun control. So far the comments have been very civil and informative, I just want to make sure it stays that way.

Thank you.
 
It doesn't make sense to me that some people, hearing about what happened, immediately voice their concern about constitutional rights. What a crock of bull.
Sorry I'm quoting you again because you struck a nerve with me. You rant about the Pro-gun crowd voicing their concern in the wake of this tragedy yet here you are doing the same thing on the opposite end of the spectrum. Your using the atrocities of a mentally ill person to gain political currency so you can further an agenda of stripping our Constitutional rights.
 
It makes no sense that a female school teacher owned all these automatic weapons and ammo. Somehow (and this has yet to come out in the news) these guns were in the mothers name and not the name of the shooter. There must have been some reason for this that has yet to emerge. An even more diabolical thought as to the long range planning perhaps ....

Does anyone else ever stop and wonder why all of these mass murders are committed only by men? What is so different about the psychology or "wiring" between a man and a woman here.

Perhaps since there is no easy answer on what new laws we need to pass to try and stop this from continuing to happen over and over and over we could at least spend some time reflecting inside of us.
 
It makes no sense that a female school teacher owned all these automatic weapons and ammo.

Inaccurate. There have been no reports of automatic weapons used in this crime. With all due respect in times like these when emotions are running super high, we have to be careful about the information that we are floating around. The term you should use is 'Semi-automatic' and before someone mentions 'semantics' I don't assume everyone knows the difference so I brought it up. If you don't know the difference you should as it's quite considerable.
 
Well, I really don't want to debate gun control here and take the focus away from the families in Newtown, but I feel like I need to voice my opinion just a little on the matter. It's not the government's job to force anything upon us. If that was the case, then we would live under a dictator. Secondly, I'm torn about automatic weapons. I'm not a gun collector. I have guns for personal protection. I do not want an automatic weapon nor do I ever see myself purchasing one. Would I like to shoot one? Yes! I would like to see what it is like. I don't think anyone other than law enforcement officers (on duty) or active military personnel have any need for automatics. I can see why gun collectors would want them. You don't need an AR-15 or an AK-47 to hunt a deer or a turkey. A bow or rifle will work just fine. On the other hand, if the government takes the right away to own a fully automatic weapon, what's to stop them from going further? Next, it would be semi-automatic weapons. After that, who knows! You can not take the right or ability to defend oneself from the general, honest, law abiding population because of the actions of nutbags!!! There would be no one left to stop the nutbags from doing whatever they wanted. And as far as the whole debate over gun control goes, those poor children in China were not slain with a gun. A psychopath will commit their crime with whatever tool they can get their hands on. Be it a gun, knife, baseball bat, etc.. It is my and our God given right to defend ourselves and I plan on doing that!

Ok, I'm off of my soapbox now. I pray that the families of the lost children find a path to somehow find some sort of peace. I realize that it will be many years before they find it, but I pray that God helps them in any way!!!
 
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folks, please.....at this point and time i feel it is far too soon to be using this event to argue over gun control....shouldn't we just focus on the tragedy as it is, and wish well to those people involved, expressing our sorrow an d sheer disbelief that someone could cause such harm to innocent children???....can't we just agree that this person CLEARLY was not of sound mind and that the ONLY way this could have been totally prevented, was if he had had a history of mental illness and had possibly been institutionalized if he had been adequately diagnosed as any form of a threat, prior to his actions???....
 
folks, please.....at this point and time i feel it is far too soon to be using this event to argue over gun control....shouldn't we just focus on the tragedy as it is, and wish well to those people involved, expressing our sorrow an d sheer disbelief that someone could cause such harm to innocent children???....can't we just agree that this person CLEARLY was not of sound mind and that the ONLY way this could have been totally prevented, was if he had had a history of mental illness and had possibly been institutionalized if he had been adequately diagnosed as any form of a threat, prior to his actions???....

I completely agree!! I know that I added to the untimely debate, but I had to clear my mind about it since it is all you hear on the news right now. At least, where I'm at. But, you are absolutely correct!! This is the time to offer our support to the families in Newtown.
 
Well, personnally I am glad he took his own life! Right now he is facing all those baby angels, whose lives he shorten and God's anger.
 
I was going to jump with both feet into this topic, but then I walked away and came back a little more calmer. It is nice to see that most of these posts make some darn good points about how society has failed. As for TonyP, you are what we call the sheep. When the wolf shows up and threatens you and your flock, you hope that the sheep dog will come to your rescue.
Now let me say this, I know nothing about growing grapes and making wine and that is why I enjoy learning so much from this site, but let me tell you this, when I took early retirement in 2011, I had worked the street for 37 years. I was a patrol Sgt and chief of police for a small 10 man dept. I worked on the academy level for over three years and was mainly involved in firearms and tactics. On retiring, I was a captain within a city of over 100,000. I also worked for a large university police department with over 30,000 students. I taught 6th grade D.A.R.E. for two years in a local middle school. I seen first hand how parents were raising their kids like they were some type of pet and how these kids were never told NO. TonyP, I was the sheep dog and I got sick of protecting those who did absolutely nothing to protect themselves. I may not know anything about grapes and wine, but I do know the street!
Further more, the media is reporting this as the worst school incident in U.S. history. Let me say this, after being involved in rapid deployment training, where we trained in the schools, this was not worst. As part of my training, we studied them all and 1927 Bath Michigan is still tops and no guns there TonyP.
My thoughts and prayers are with the families. In my 37 years, responding to incidents where small children were involved was something that would just turn your stomach. Sorry to have rambled on, but this makes me sick. And YES, the media needs to get the hell out of there and leave these poor people alone!

The Bath School disaster is the name given to three bombings in Bath Township, Michigan, on May 18, 1927, which killed 38 elementary school children, two teachers, four other adults and the bomber himself; at least 58 people were injured. Most of the victims were children in the second to sixth grades (7–11 years of age[1]) attending the Bath Consolidated School. Their deaths constitute the deadliest mass murder in a school in U.S. history and the third-deadliest non-military massacre in U.S. history, behind 9/11 and the Oklahoma City bombing.

The bomber was school board treasurer Andrew Kehoe, 55, who died in a car bomb he set off after he drove up to the school as the crowd gathered to rescue survivors from the burning school.

On the morning of May 18, Kehoe murdered his wife by beating her to death, then set his farm buildings afire. As fire fighters arrived at the farm, an explosion devastated the north wing of the school building, killing many schoolchildren.
 
Well, personnally I am glad he took his own life! Right now he is facing all those baby angels, whose lives he shorten and God's anger.

now i am not trying to start a debate by any means here, but this time i have to disagree, julie....lol...he took the coward's way out....he should have had to face the face anger and pain of the parents involved....let them take care of him....and not to start a theological discussion, but yes, the babies are in heaven, but his psycopathic a@@ went in the other direction....hopefully right now, satan is shoving a pitchfork where the son don't shine!!!...
 
I am not saying there is a direct cause-effect relationship here, but I wonder if anyone has ever at least studied the rise of gratuitous violence in motion picture films compared to films from the 30's, 40's, 50's and early 60's? I remember in "the olden days" people were shot or stabbed in movies but it was not at all graphic. Then, Sam Peckinpah came along with 6 gallons of blood in every scene in movies and now on TV and we started to see these mass murders. Could they be related? I don't know but I am asking, has anyone looked at this? A second concern I have are these games that my Grandchildren play over and over which are nothing but killing people by many means. They are very graphic and my concern is we may be programming our children with them.

For the first half of my life, the only mass murder I can remember was that of Richard Speck who murdered 8 nurses in Chicago in 1966 by strangulation or stabbing. Since then, we have had a number of school shootings, mall shootings, restaurant shootings, etc. conicidental with the rise of violence in movies, TV and games. Post hoc ergo propter hoc or is there something there?
 
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