Degassing Question

[jody]

I am at the degassing phase of my Wine Kitz Wine Art Kit.

The directions say to add the sulfite and then to stir with the drill stiriing rod for 1-2 minutes and then to add the sorbate and stir for 1-2 minutes. Now I know this is going to take longer than 4 minutes.

So far I have added the sulfite and have been removing gas for about ten minutes. Is it okay to add the sorbate now (before all the gas is removed) and then continue degassing?

I am using the drill powered stirring rod.

 

[Dugger]

Yes, it's okay to add the sorbate and then continue with your degassing. Sorbate addition can be optional depending on whether the wine fermented dry or sweetener is added, but I'm guessing you're relatively new to this so it's best to follow directions at this time. For degassing, the wine should be warm, about 23*C or 75*F, so that the gas (CO2) can more easily be driven out. If it's not up to this temp, try to get it there and degas some more. Good luck.
By the way, you can continue to degas right up until you bottle if you think there may still be some gas to come out ( but not when it's clearing, so you don't disturb the sediment).

 

[jody]

Thanks Dugger, The kit has me adding Chitosan and Keiselsol tomorrow so I assume after that addition than no more stirring?

Also I think I will just put the brew belt on the carboy for the night and stir a bit more tomorrow.

 

[Dugger]

Well you can stir just after you add the clarifiers but after that you want the wine to be still so the clearing can start. Keep in mind your degassing should be primarily completed before the wine starts to clear, otherwise the CO2 still in the wine may prevent proper clearing. You may want to do some degassing over a couple of days before you add the clarifiers if you think it still needs it. The brew belt will certainly help. Depending on temperatures I usually put mine on when I start the kit and leave it on until after stabilization.

 

[jody]

I used the drill stirring rod last night for a while. I would get a cyclone going and then stop and let it froth and go away for 10 minutes at a time. I must have done this about ten times. It seemed that all the gas had been out of the wine. I put the brew belt on for the night and now today I stirred for a minute and it is frothing a little still. I have heard that too much stirring will introduce too much O2 into the wine. My kit instructions has me adding the clarifiers today so I want all the gas out. What should I do now?

 

[Deezil]

Taste just a sip of it and see if it tingles on your tongue - this will tell you if theres still noticable amounts of co2 trapped in the wine. If theres no tingle, you're pretty much degassed & can move on.

 

[jody]

Seems a bit of a tingle on the tongue. Will the wine oxidize if I stir too much?

 

[Deezil]

If you are stirring in oxygen, yeah it will - meaning, if you stirring enough that its creating a strong whirlpool effect. Some have said that stirring back-and-forth works better than round-and-round stirring.

 

[jody]

I bought this drill powered stirring rod to simplify the degassing stage. It is not possible to stir back in forth with a drill powered rod that spins in a circle. Maybe I would have been better off just stirring the 6 times in 24 hours with the plastic spoon. At least I would be done now.

 

[Deezil]

The drill powered ones do work too, theres just a method to it - as you're finding out. You're probably close to degassed, if theres only a bit of a tingle as a wine straight out of fermentation has enough co2 in it to overpower most of the rest of it.

I would give it a few more pulses with the stirrer, just be mindful of how much of a cyclone you get going. Degassing is probably one of the bigger pains in winemaking, if you dont own some sort of pump.

Also remember that being closer to 75F degrees, helps the co2 leave the wine easier than at cooler temps.

 

[jody]

Thanks for all your help. I just realized I forgot to add the keiselsol after the sulfite/sorbate yesterday when I started the degassing. I just added it now. Is that okay or do I have to degass more? I guess what I am thinking is that does the keiselsol aid in degassing?

 

[Deezil]

The keiselsol helps with clearing - grabs onto the sediment and pulls it to the bottom - but this is made easier when theres no co2 trying to float to the top while gravity pulls on the sediment.

So you're almost better off / not hurt by adding it now, than if you had before

Is there a Chitosan packet too? Usually its a 2-part step.. Kieselsol stirred in, then Chitosan stirred in.. Have no experience with the kit though, so thats why im asking..

 

[jody]

The kits has the sulphite/sorbate and keiselsol addition prior to degassing (after transferring into the secondary). Then after degassing it has the chitosan addition as well as topping up.

Should I wait a day before adding the chitosan? Or is it okay so close to adding the keiselsol?

 

[Deezil]

Yeah those directions sound a little foreign to me.. i always understood it to be a 2-part process. Hopefully someone with some experience in that company or kit will chime in..

 

[JohnnyRico]

I had a kit like yours and also added in that order as instructed. Shouldn't hurt as long as you follow the correct order of which one you put in first.. I cant remember off hand which one came first.

 

[pioneergirl]

I just finished and bottled my first kit and I can tell you that I had a really hard time degassing it. With my very limited experience, I think Temperature is the most critical factor in degassing along with timing. I don't have a professionally made drill attachment thingy. I crafted up a heated/bent plastic coat hanger/beater and that did not help to degass. I used the back/paddle end of the long plastic spoon (which broke today into another carboy I was working on degassing - more on that later).

I also did a search on this degassing subject yesterday and some insightful contributor noted that s/he used a carboy brush to degas (of course that person said they kept a brush solely for that purpose - and it was of course santized for use). So, I have a red zin that was at the clarifying / degassing ready stage as you are at.

I purchased that 2 part Super Kleer packet - comes with kieselsol and chitosan. You add the Kieselsol first and stir and then the directions on that plastic packet says to wait an hour and then put the chitosan into 1 oz of warm water, mix and then pour and mix into carboy and stir in (this same packet is included in my other kit wine and the packet reads the same directions). I too was a little confused on "when" to degas --- before or during this addition of clarifiers. I set the carboy out yesterday near a heater vent and I decided to go degass with the "during/after adding clarifiers". At first using the spoon - lots of gas came up and foamed over. Then after about a half hour the spoon broke off into the carboy!!! Now what?? I remembered the brush...So I went a grabbed a large carboy brush that is not really used, washed, santised that and WOW did that work wonders!! I used that for about a 1/2 hour and I believe that I brought a lot of CO2 out of it all. When I say 1/2 hour, I mean giving the brush a shake or two letting it foam up and then die down; like I mentioned it is also just a timing thing. I am leaving the broken spoon end in there until I rack off again.

I have a book that simply explains the hows and whys of the various additives and these clarifiers attract the + and - charged particles in the wine to clump together, get heavy and fall to the bottom. Hope this helps even just a little bit.

 

[hvac36]

Glad the brush idea worked Without a vacuum pump I find this the best..

 

[astebbi1]

I saw a video on the coathanger idea and it seemed to work fine.. He also used a vacuum to degas witch im definitely trying next time..

 

[robie]

With the drill stirrer, stir in one direction but don't let a deep vortex form. That is what loads the wine with air.

Once stirring is going good in clockwise direction, change from clockwise stirring to counter-clockwise. Stir until wine starts flowing well in that direction, then stop and let tiny bubbles come to surface.

You can repeat this cycle until the fizzy feeling on the tongue is gone.