Is there a substantial difference between a chitosan solution intended for fining (1%) or a pure chitosan like Killbrett (100%) except the concentration. I mean, could the diluted chitosan work as good as an anti-microbial if applied more generously? Or do I need Killbrett? I basically just want to inhibit MLF and preserve freshness without excessive usage of sulfur. I Don't care for the fining effect really...
Chitosan fining solution as an anti-microbial?
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The short answer: there is a massive difference between any substance at 100% and 1% dilution.
Fining agents strip component from wine -- an overdose of any fining agent is likely to damage the wine.
MLB can be inhibited by sulfite in the 30 to 50 ppm range, so the dosage required is minor.
Fining agents strip component from wine -- an overdose of any fining agent is likely to damage the wine.
MLB can be inhibited by sulfite in the 30 to 50 ppm range, so the dosage required is minor.
Just to be clear. The 100% version is supposed to be diluted 10x when used. So the difference is ten times and the active component seems to be the same.
10x is still way too much. I'd not use 2x, or even 1.1x.
I recently published the first part of a study I'm conducting on the use of kieselsol and chitosan in wine. Even normal doses of any fining agent have negative effects on wine.
https://www.winemakingtalk.com/threads/kieselsol-and-chitosan-test-results.77805/
There is a large dividing line between the use of any additive in wine vs. in any other edible liquid. Mis-use of anything is likely to damage the wine. Sulfite is used for antioxidant and antimicrobial protection as it's the safest one that works, especially as sulfite is naturally occurring during fermentation.
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To prevent MLF, you might consider adding Lysozyme, several places sell it, it isn't cheap and isn't a replacement for proper SO2 levels. As Bryan points out proper low level sulfate use is effective also. I have never tried this, but I did see some articles pointing to adding fumaric acid to lower the ph level and inhibit MLF from happening. This article looked potentially to be of use The oenological interest of fumaric acid: Stop malolactic fermentation and preserve the freshness of wines | BIO Web of Conferences
Ok, it seems like you misunderstand me. My point is not of using excessive amounts of chitosan. My question was if the chitosan in a fining solution is different from the chitosan in a product like Killbrett. My intention is to add Chitosan in recommended concentrations för preventing unwanted mircobes. No "mis-use". But it sounds like you don't have a lot of experience with Chitosan (and neither do I).
I know well that fining is detrimental to wine, but so is SO2. Chitosan is a natural product and kills microbes where SO2 just inhibits them. SO2 is also very PH dependent. And the audience right know is very against SO2.
Since I don't like the handling or "taste" of SO2 I am curious to try Chitosan in a bench test. Usually I don't add anything to my fements. I want to see if Chitosan makes my ferments age in a different manner.
@per.buhre, no, I do understand you -- you do not want to use sulfite and are looking to use chitosan as a replacement. This is not going to work out as you hope.
Chitosan's primary use in winemaking is as a fining agent. Any antimicrobial properties are an additional benefit, but are not necessary.
Use of chitosan in amounts above what is prescribed for fining will produce negative impact on the wine. The source of the chitosan does not matter.
Chitosan will NOT replace sulfite, since chitosan is not an antioxidant. Antimicrobial is only part of what sulfite does; the antioxidant properties are actually more important. Wine is a preservation system, with high ABV and low pH inhibiting the growth of most microorganisms. If the wine is good when bottled, oxidation is the far greater danger, especially as the wine ages.
Try a limited test. Treat 1 gallon with whatever concentration of chitosan you want. Bottle that gallon and an untreated gallon, and do a blind taste test 6 months later. If you are satisfied with the chitosan treated wine, great! If not, you need another plan.
If you are consuming the batch within 2 years, you can try going without sulfite. IME wines without sulfite are often in decline after 1 year, and all that I've had were in decline by year 2.
Chitosan's primary use in winemaking is as a fining agent. Any antimicrobial properties are an additional benefit, but are not necessary.
Use of chitosan in amounts above what is prescribed for fining will produce negative impact on the wine. The source of the chitosan does not matter.
Chitosan will NOT replace sulfite, since chitosan is not an antioxidant. Antimicrobial is only part of what sulfite does; the antioxidant properties are actually more important. Wine is a preservation system, with high ABV and low pH inhibiting the growth of most microorganisms. If the wine is good when bottled, oxidation is the far greater danger, especially as the wine ages.
Try a limited test. Treat 1 gallon with whatever concentration of chitosan you want. Bottle that gallon and an untreated gallon, and do a blind taste test 6 months later. If you are satisfied with the chitosan treated wine, great! If not, you need another plan.
If you are consuming the batch within 2 years, you can try going without sulfite. IME wines without sulfite are often in decline after 1 year, and all that I've had were in decline by year 2.
Cap Puncher
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Kill Brett and No Brett Inside are both fungan chitosan rather than from crustaceans as used with the normal fining agents. They are both geared to Brett (yeast). Fungal chitosan is a powder that you make a fine suspension with that binds to Brett cell walls. Recommended dosages is 2-4 g per hectoliter (0.41-0.92g per 23 liters).
The crustacean chitosan comes as the 1% solution 45ml typically (0.45g per 19-23 liters). I’m not sure if there are different effects of a suspension vs a solution.
There is a product Bactiless that is more geared towards acetobacter, MLB, and other bugs. Bactiless is more chitin-glucan rather than Chitosan (slightly different). I have used both on high pH wines I which I did not want to use as much sulfite to protect. They are great wines IMO.
If you are just looking from MLB inhibition, Bactiless should work with some sulfite (I agree that you still want some sulfite for O2 scavenging).
Lysozyme can strip tannin as well. I had it do this on a Zinfandel than I couldn’t get ML to complete on. I used Lysozyme and it messed up the tannin/acid/ alcohol balance.
Bactiless 20 g for $11.49 +shipping
https://www.thebeveragepeople.com/wine-making/ingredients/bactiless-20-grams.html
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