Bulk Aging

[VinoAdept]

How far in the process do you go before bulk aging?

1. Do you bulk age after you clear?
2. Do you bulk age before you clear?
3. Can you bulk age after you add meta-bisulphite/potsorbate and than after bulk aging (week to its end) add the finening agents?
4. Can you add the fining agents months after the mb/ps (#3)?
5. Does this differ from kit to kit?
6. Can you bulk age white wine the same way you do red wine?
7. Is there a time limit for bulk aging?
8. Is there certain kits you should not bulk age?
9. Are there kits that you should bulk age?

Thank you,
va

Edited by: VinoAdept

 

[jjk1991]

Hi Vino, let me try to answer what I do for bulk aging.
1. I bulk age right after primary fermentation and will let sit for 3 months.
2. You can bulk age before or after you clear. I like to to bulk age with the wine on top of the lees sediment to give more complexity to the wine. I have also added oak spirals during this process as well and it tends to extract more oak flavor as well.
3. You can choose what step you want to bulk age, but in my opinion, right after primary, bulk aging for 3 months will allow for natural clearing. By the time you add clarifiers, it clears faster and the degassing goes much smoother.
4. Finings for me occurs in month 4 as I use this month to really clear my wine and ready it for bottling.
5. I like MM kits for bulk aging than winexpert.
6.Bulk aging does favor the whites more. In fact, a do a fairly cold maturation for my Reisling in addition to bulk aging on the lees and it won gold last year for the 2007 Wimemaker International contest.
7. 3-4 months for me.
8. Winexpert really doesn't need much bulk aging time.
9. MM kits do very well bulk aging. I do glass carboys only because barrels are high mantenance to do and infusion spirals do the trick just fine.


I hope this helps!


John

 

[VinoAdept]

Thank you, that helped quite a bit.

It sounds like good practice to not rush to secondary fermentation. Though most kits seem to outline day 20 as a starting point for secondary kickoff.

During bulk aging is there any need to stir, shake or disturb the wine? Should you just let it sit and age?

A few more questions :

The first, about primary fermentation; is it helpful to stir the must for the first 3-5 days with any wine? Are there certain wines you should not stir or disturb during this time?

And is it beneficial to use yeast nutrient with wines? Why use yeast nutrient? If there are times when you shouldn't, why not?

the reason to ask the last question I bought the same kit two weeks apart an d thekit changed. First kit no yeast nutrient... The second, with new instructions include yeast nutrient? Thoughts?

thank you!!!
va

Edited by: VinoAdept

 

[grapeman]

Sounds like you bought a Mosti kit. Yes they did just change the instructions and added yeast nutrient. There had been a few cases of off odors developng with slow ferments without adequate yeast nutrient so Mosti started adding them and slightly changed the instruction set. Yet another good reason to read and follow the manufacturers instructions.


Oh and while bulk aging- do not disturb it. Just rack it off the sediment that may drop after a couple months. If you leave some in there during bulk aging, it will add more complexity to the kit.

 

[VinoAdept]

Thank you!!

So when white bulk-aging, after the primary rack it to a secondary, when your SG its rack it a third time ??

Trying to clearly understand can you confirm the following:

Currently, Im at secondary from my first racking into a carboy? I then should rack a second time, bring along some sentiment not ALL. and bulkage from this point, correct?

 

[gc605]

VA,

Yeast grow best in the presence of oxygen, so O2 exposure (especially within the first 24-48 hours) is beneficial. As for 3-5 days in, it's a personal judgement call. Some will give a gentle stir, some will leave it alone. Keep in mind that at this stage you won't see a spike in yeast growth due to the toxic environment (low oxygen, low pH, increasing alcohol, low nitrogen).

Yeast nutrient is a yeast supplement that provides the growing yeast population with nitrogen (N is incorporated into the cells to make amino acids, which make proteins, which will make functional parts of cells/components of new yeast cells). Low N levels put the yeast under stress and the secrete hydrogen sulfide (the rotten egg odor). However, too much N will result in the production of fusel alcohols (more off-odors) and other toxic compounds. Yeast nutrient should only be used when needed. If the instructions call for it, go for it--but be judicious.

With regards to stirring the lees during aging--that's another personal stylistic call. Wineries call the processing of stirring the lees in the barrel battonage, and frankly, some places will do it and others won't. You're faced with the same situation, however your vessel is glass instead of wood! The ones who stir their barrels say it gives a smoother mouthfeel to the wine, but it's totally up to you.

Best of luck!

 

[smurfe]

I bulk age all of my wines. I will admit that my main reason is that I am a pretty busy guy and I am pretty lazy at times. I have found that kit wines, particularly red wines benefit from bulk aging. I am one of the unfortunate devils that can detect the often discussed "kit taste" particularly in Wine Expert kits. I have found that the "kt" will dissipate after a year or so of aging.


My process is fairly simple. I follow the kit steps to an extent all the way up to the bottling step. I rack the wine an extra step and have even filtered the wine back to a carboy, add the extra sulfite's and basically let it set as "one big bottle" of wine for at least a year. I feel the aging in thecarboy allows the wine mellow as one and after bottling every bottle tastes the same. So basically my bulk aging is essentially bottle aging on one big bottle. Nothing more, nothing less.


I keep an eye on the free SO2 by using the Accuvin test kits that George sells which are fantastic products from my experience. You need to know your pH to properly measure the SO2 and the Accuvin kit is fantastic. I have quit using my pH meter and just use the strips. I compared the strips to the meter and found they are on the money with the meter and way easier to use and maintain.


This is no way a recommendation on a proper use of bulk aging but merely my process that IMHO has worked very well and is stress free and "un-sophisticated. I have a few wines that have aged a bit over 2 years that were made from kits that I would challenge anyone to be able to tell they were made from a kit. Bulk aging teaches patience to a new winemaker and allows them to make a wine that meets their expectations. Going by the minimal time frames from the directions will make a very drinkable wine but it may not meet your palette expectations experienced from commercial wines.

 

[jjk1991]

During the primary stage, I will wait for the fermentation to start. After that, I do stir once a day making sure the cloth bag (with raisins) is stirred around so I can extract all the flavors as much as possible from those guys. It will add to sediment at the end, but that's where the complexity comes from. Once I rack to secondary, I will pretty much let it sit. I have on an occasion or two just grabbed the carboy and give a little a shake to stir up the sediment. I can't really say it makes any difference, bit it all 3 of MM kits do come out consistent on flavor. I too, can taste a Winexpert kit taste. MM are full bodied wines, but you have to have a lot of patience to do these kits and they are truly not ready to drink for at least 6 months. You can drink sooner, but you won't appreciate it until a year or so if you can wait that long.


I have only used the nutrient once due to stuck fermentation. I believe the yeast was not the best, but once the nutrient was added, the yeast took off. Readings are critical and over time you will be able to tweak recipes once you understand how these microbes and micronutrients work together or against. You can keep it simple or you can make it complex. Its really up to you.Edited by: jjk1991

 

[Sub Vet]

Hi Smurfe,Usually in the last step in kit wines it says wait 28 days for the wine to clear.Do you count those 28 days as one month before you begin to bulk age?Also how often do you need too add more k meta while the wine is aging?If you do add more do you place the1/4t in the wine dry and then stir,or do you mix the k meta first with h20 or wine and then add to the carboy?Thanks

 

[smurfe]

I wait until the wine is ready for bottling for my "bulk aging" to begin. I then rack again to a carboy that I have added the extra K-Meta to. Sometime I will even filter the wine to the new carboy with the K-Meta added. I then check the wine every 6 months to assure proper sulfite levels.


Basically I am bottle aging the wine in one big bottle. I will say that I believe you would see a more complex development of the wine using the steps George posted. I think that would be a fantastic way to continue to "develop" the wine where I feel I am basically just allowing the wine to "mature."

 

[peterCooper]

Remember, those times on the kits are minimum times. Once you move to secondary you are off the 'gross lees' which can impart an off taste if the wine is left to sit too long.

It may be that your fermentation is done in 20 days. That doesn't mean you have to move to the next step, it just means that you can.

You can let the wine sit there for an extra month before clarifying if you want without any ill effect.Once you stabilize, again you can let it sit for a month or two without any harm before racking.

I'm with smurf. For me, bulk aging is what happens after it has been stabilized and racked. Even after you have bulk aged for 3, 6 or 9 months or even a year, once you bottle it you need to leave a month or two to let it recover from the bottling process.

Edited by: peterCooper

 

[nyredskinsfan]

I bulk age for a couple reasons. Get busy and sometimes lazy and the other reason is that I ensure that the fermentation process is done as I do not add pot sorbate nor sulfates to the wine. As a fellow mentioned earlier, longer it sets, the more it settles. You could always draw off a little if the need arises.