Blueberry Wine - Too Hot

[turkeylipz]

Hello fellow wine makers...pretty new to yeast wrangling and having a little bit of an issue (at least perceived) that I was hoping to find an answer to. I have a blueberry that just finished secondary and is reading .990. (Start 1.104)

Here is the recipe that I mashed up from several others: (3gal)

7lb blueberries (frozen)
2lb raisins
6lb cane sugar
1 1/2 tsp pectic
1 1/2 tsp yeast energizer
4 1/2 tsp acid blend
1/2 tsp tannin
.44 grams kmeta ~1/8 tsp

I did water to 4 gallons with the fruit and raisins in a mesh bag. Squeezed the bag of juice after primary.

I used montrachet yeast.

Everything seemed fine. Transferred from the secondary and tasted...POW!

I havent done BB wine before. Is this normal...will it taper off over time? Do I need to think about backsweet or convert to a port? Maybe just shots!

Still digging the hobby though. Been 3 months and I have 4 kits, a homemade plum and now blueberry paint thinner (not necessarily a bad thing)

 

[RotGut76]

What exactly does too hot mean? If its high alcohol content I'm all in.

 

[jamesngalveston]

thats about 15 percent, if you make a port, you will have to add more alcohol.
If you want a drinkable wine, that is not so stringent.
You need to get about 3 lbs of blueberries, add to a pot, cook on low and mash the hell out of them...after cooking on low for about 20 minutes strain.
then add about 4 cups sugar and cook on med for about 30 minutes.
let cool...add by 1 cup fulls until desired taste and sweetness.
that will take the bite out of it.

 

[turkeylipz]

Rotgut - exactly...probably bottle a few as is...

Unfortunately the alcohol just completely takes away any nuances the wine might have. Wasnt sure if that was typical for a BB wine at first and if it would mellow over time or not.

thanks jamesngalveston. Thats what I was looking for. Plan B. I'll let it bulk age some time and then see where it is. If it's still engine worthy I might hit it with a homemade BB syrup (for lack of a better term)

 

[turkeylipz]

Here's a follow on question though....

Does the relative astringency of a wine make the alcohol seem more up front at first? Therefore as it mellows the alcohol mellows as well or is it simply 15% and will always taste like 15%?

I ask more from the standpoint of trying to understand what affects what and adjusting the recipe accordingly next time.

 

[CBell]

Some of the alcohol bite will mellow over several months, and backsweetening will help mask it somewhat as well, but 15% is always going to have a bit of a bite to it. You clearly have a hydrometer, though, so you were probably expecting the alcohol to be 15%, no?

 

[turkeylipz]

Some of the alcohol bite will mellow over several months, and backsweetening will help mask it somewhat as well, but 15% is always going to have a bit of a bite to it. You clearly have a hydrometer, though, so you were probably expecting the alcohol to be 15%, no?

perhaps...if the hydrometer also foretold the future of fermentation results for us for newbies...

The two kits I had done previously behaved as outlined in the instructions and finished somewhere in the high 9s. The plum wine softly touched down a little over 1 sg so it finished in the 10.5 % range. The Blueberry dropped like a rock and I just wasn't expecting it given my lack of experience. I suppose a little more attentiveness next time and i'll jump on the sorbate to stop early...but that's what makes this a beginners forum. Pay a little more attention and control the finish...especially when it starts high...lesson learned.

Probably wont be the last mistake I make though so it's always good to have some corrective measures in my back pocket. I plan on bulk aging this one til the spring of 2014 so i'll check in the new year and try and mellow if appropriate given what has been stated here.

Thanks.

 

[seth8530]

First off, you have two things going on.. Your fruit load was really low, try 6 lbs per gallon instead. However, all is not lost. Make an F-pack out of blueberries once the wine is cleared and sorbated +sulfited and add that to the wine. That and a good 6-12 months of aging should do it some good.

 

[Arne]

Don't bet the farm sorbate will stop an active ferment when you want it to. Sorbate stops the yeast from reproducing. The live yeast will keep on going but will slow down as they age. They have a habit of slowly fermenting and somewhere down the line you mite be posting "My corks are blowing out of my bottles, what happened??" It might work for you, but it can go this way also. Arne.

 

[seth8530]

Don't bet the farm sorbate will stop an active ferment when you want it to. Sorbate stops the yeast from reproducing. The live yeast will keep on going but will slow down as they age. They have a habit of slowly fermenting and somewhere down the line you mite be posting "My corks are blowing out of my bottles, what happened??" It might work for you, but it can go this way also. Arne.

Arne, did I come off as if I was recommending sorbating an active ferment? I hope not because that is absolutely not what I wanted to imply.

Yes! Never ever try and stop an active ferment with sorbate =bad idea

 

[jamesngalveston]

I wonder how many times (sorbate) comes up in questions on this forum.
It seems as if that wine making would end, if there is no sorbate left.
Not mention that sorbate will not stop fermentation, most add it wrong anyhow...
It is suppose to be added to a clear wine (less yeast cells) yet most want to add it to a cloudy...go figure

 

[turkeylipz]

allow me to attempt summary statements if I may...

* There is NO guaranteed way to stop a fermentation except time.

* Sorbate is ultimately NOT necessary (see time above) unless you plan on bottling fairly early

* The best (and possibly only?) way to control final ABV is through adjusting starting SG prior to any yeast being added. Once it starts....you are along for the ride.

* If you didn't pay attention to the starting SG OR thought that your homemade wine would behave like your first attempt and stop softly above 1 (i.e. when it's done right that sucker is hitting ~.990 - don't plan for failure)
then you can create an F-Pack once it is cleared to attempt to mellow it out while it bulk ages.

Sound about right? Any of these generalizations too sweeping?

 

[seth8530]

allow me to attempt summary statements if I may...

* There is NO guaranteed way to stop a fermentation except time.

* Sorbate is ultimately NOT necessary (see time above) unless you plan on bottling fairly early

* The best (and possibly only?) way to control final ABV is through adjusting starting SG prior to any yeast being added. Once it starts....you are along for the ride.

* If you didn't pay attention to the starting SG OR thought that your homemade wine would behave like your first attempt and stop softly above 1 (i.e. when it's done right that sucker is hitting ~.990 - don't plan for failure)
then you can create an F-Pack once it is cleared to attempt to mellow it out while it bulk ages.

Sound about right? Any of these generalizations too sweeping?

Only a little bit. It is still good practice to add sorbate to any wine you plan on adding sugar back into.

And it is indeed very possible to control abv during a fermentation by adding more sugar in and tracking how much you diluted the must compared to how much more alcohol your addition will provide.. However, that does not really help you if you plan on stopping the fermentation.

 

[turkeylipz]

Only a little bit. It is still good practice to add sorbate to any wine you plan on adding sugar back into.

And it is indeed very possible to control abv during a fermentation by adding more sugar in and tracking how much you diluted the must compared to how much more alcohol your addition will provide.. However, that does not really help you if you plan on stopping the fermentation.

Perfect. Got it. Thanks for the clarification seth8530. These are some good baseline generalizations.

 

[seth8530]

Yeperz NP. Glad to clarify.

 

[jswordy]

Rotgut - exactly...probably bottle a few as is...

Unfortunately the alcohol just completely takes away any nuances the wine might have. Wasnt sure if that was typical for a BB wine at first and if it would mellow over time or not.

thanks jamesngalveston. Thats what I was looking for. Plan B. I'll let it bulk age some time and then see where it is. If it's still engine worthy I might hit it with a homemade BB syrup (for lack of a better term)

If you will age this for one year, you will be utterly amazed. Trust me.

 

[Arne]

Arne, did I come off as if I was recommending sorbating an active ferment? I hope not because that is absolutely not what I wanted to imply.

Yes! Never ever try and stop an active ferment with sorbate =bad idea

Nope, Seth. I was replying to post #7 above. You are spot on. Arne.

 

[seth8530]

Nope, Seth. I was replying to post #7 above. You are spot on. Arne.

Ahh ok cool deal. I see what you were talking about now.

 

[jswordy]

Turkeylipz:

allow me to attempt summary statements if I may...

* There is NO guaranteed way to stop a fermentation except time.

I disagree. There are several ways: Cold crashing (microscopically proven if done correctly); alcohol poisoning; sugar shortage; heat. There's 4 off the top of my head. In fact, in the pre-chemical days, many commercial wineries cold crashed or heated the wine (Pasteurization) to stop fermentation.

* Sorbate is ultimately NOT necessary (see time above) unless you plan on bottling fairly early

I disagree. If you do not alcohol-poison, Pasteurize or correctly cold crash and plan to back sweeten, and the wine is to be bottle stored for more than a very short period, sorbate should be added.

* The best (and possibly only?) way to control final ABV is through adjusting starting SG prior to any yeast being added. Once it starts....you are along for the ride.

I disagree. You can control it by yeast selection and leave a sweet wine behind after alcohol poisoning. It is also possible to contract or extend a fermentation by selective use of sugar and temps. There is a wine made in Italy that ferments for 15 YEARS!

* If you didn't pay attention to the starting SG OR thought that your homemade wine would behave like your first attempt and stop softly above 1 (i.e. when it's done right that sucker is hitting ~.990 - don't plan for failure)
then you can create an F-Pack once it is cleared to attempt to mellow it out while it bulk ages.

Any added sugar will cause refermentation if the wine is not stabilized using one or more of the techniques above.

Sound about right? Any of these generalizations too sweeping?

I recommend reading the UC-Davis textbooks on commercial winery operation, paying particular attention to commercial practices as illustrated through peer-review scholarly articles. I'm beyond "he said-she said" and into university research on the subject now. There's a lot to learn that's old hat for commercial vintners but not for those of us at home. Very interesting to learn how they successfully do stuff that is "wrong" on the Innerwebs.

 

[turkeylipz]

I recommend reading the UC-Davis textbooks on commercial winery operation, paying particular attention to commercial practices as illustrated through peer-review scholarly articles. I'm beyond "he said-she said" and into university research on the subject now. There's a lot to learn that's old hat for commercial vintners but not for those of us at home. Very interesting to learn how they successfully do stuff that is "wrong" on the Innerwebs.

Awesome. Someone after my own heart. I'm definitely someone that enjoys the research side of things and appreciate the references. The inner webs definitely has some benefits but...well....i think my sig sums it up.