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al b

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I am the winemaker at a small winery on the east coast and have made a sweet blackberry wine for the summer. I have noticed considerable pigment drop out over time, which has lead to an ugly yet harmless sediment in the bottle. Is there a technique other than time to fine or bined this pigment before going to bottle?
 
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Sacalait

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I can't seem to get around that either. I've even had pigment drop out after filtering with a #2 buon vino filter. After about a year I "sometimes" have drop out.
 

Luc

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Blackberry is famous for loosing color however
it also depends on the variety of blackberry you
are using.

A bit late but you could add elderberry juice in the future
(not more as 10%) which will add tannins and keeps
preserving the dark red color.

Luc
 

oldwino

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I can't seem to get around that either. I've even had pigment drop out after filtering with a #2 buon vino filter. After about a year I "sometimes" have drop out.
How long do you age before bottling? I have never had that problem with blackberry. I do filter with a #2 buon filter (I'm really into modern times with the filter). I have another carboy ready to bottle in a couple of months that is on oak right now. However, I don't bottle any wine before at least 8 months. My complete recipe for my blackberry wine is on the brewersroundtable forum under wine recipes. I wonder if it could be the type of blackberry. I used Walmart's frozen blackberries. The only thing I may be doing different is I never rack from the primary. I transfer. I want to leave as much of the lees in the secondary as possible from the primary, except for the bag which I squeeze lightly. It seems to enhance the flavor later. I wait another 3 to 4 weeks before I rack again. I have waited as long as 6 weeks but you usually have to splash rack if you wait that long. However, that was the most awesome wine I ever made with great flavor. Some of my proceedures are different because I learned from an old commercial wine maker in So CA a long time ago and I'm too old to change now. This is interesting though. I have had sediment before I started filtering a few years ago but no pigment loss.

I just happened to think about this a little longer. I ferment in a dark wine room. The only light is when I am in the room. The blackberry wine goes to a dark green bottle. From there it goes to a vino temp wine box that is also dark. It really never sees any daylight until I pour it in the glass.
 
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Sacalait

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The length of time in the carboy before bottling varies as to how energetic I feel but in all seriousness 3-4 months. I've never bought blackberries, just use the ones I planted so it's always the same type.

I opened a bottle today that was bottled 2months ago and had been started in May. No sediment so far but we haven't gotten to the bottom of the bottle yet. I'll give a followup tomorrow when we finish the bottle.
 

Sacalait

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The length of time in the carboy before bottling varies as to how energetic I feel but in all seriousness 3-4 months. I've never bought blackberries, just use the ones I planted so it's always the same type.

I opened a bottle today that was bottled 2months ago and had been started in May. No sediment so far but we haven't gotten to the bottom of the bottle yet. I'll give a followup tomorrow when we finish the bottle.
As for the transfer method and racking times we're doing it the same way. I don't understand the "splash" racking you referred to, what is the point in that?

I ferment in a room that gets a little sun light but I keep the carboys covered. As for the bottles, they're mixed but for the most part they're colored brown or green.
 

oldwino

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When I transfer from the primary to the secondary and get busy and forget what is supposed to be going on in my wine room and leave it in that first secondary too long SO2 builds from the gross lees. A rotten egg, sulphur odor. That is why I like to rack within 2 to 3 weeks to rack off of those gross lees. If you have that SO2 build up you can rack and allow the wine to splash into the next carboy the SO2 will dissipate. Sometimes you have to rack the second time the same way. The odor will go away in most cases. I accidently left a strawberry wine on the gross lees for 6 weeks. The wine turned out fine but that long on gross lees is not a good idea. If you use montrachet yeast and don't use yeast nutrient it tends to build SO2. I'm not a chemist so don't know why. That is the reason that with any yeast I like to use yeast nutrient and yeast energizer.
 

Sacalait

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Thanks for the headsup on SO2. I finished off a bottle of blackberry today (made in May) and there was no color drop out. On the other hand I had color drop in a muscadine from 2007 and they had both been filtered with a #2 buon filter.
 

oldwino

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I think everyone gets some drop out of color with the #2 filter. Once that color has changed I haven't noticed any more color drop out or sediment. Using the #2 filter I no longer get the sediment in the bottle after a year or so. It really polishes the wine.

An added note to my above post. I add yeast nutrient when I add the campden. After 24 hours I add yeast energizer, stir it in, then sprinkle the yeast on top and start stirring or punching down 24 hours later. I then do that twice a day. I prefer the S. bayanus strains of yeast because they are less likely to produce SO2. However that is just a personal preference.
 

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