Blackberry or Blueberry Port

[ckassotis]

Hey,

Long time reader and first time poster. I've done a few concentrates that I have toyed with, and working on some Mosti Mondiale syrah right now. Next season I'd like to work with some fresh grapes for the first time, and I'd like to try out some fresh fruit before that point.

So, as I love port, I decided to make either a blackberry or blueberry port. I was pondering using the Jackkeller recipes for those, but couldn't decide between them. Anyone have any input? I had heard that blueberry was perhaps a bit hard to ferment, and that was wine. There would certainly be a lot more juice in a port than in a typical wine.

So, I have the recipes from JK, but wasn't sure if there was anything else to watch for. I had heard a rumor (either on these boards or another) that I could take the fruit out of the port after a few days of fermenting and add to another primary and use for a wine (not a port). Anyone know if that is the case?

Other than that, Sam's Club has some really great prices on fruit, especially for off-season, so I have a good source of good-looking fruit there.

My other question was in method of creating the port. So I can either fortify a rather high alcohol with brandy, or add additional sugar in sections, if I understand correctly. The idea being that all the sugar at once wouldn't be fermentable, but adding a bit more as each bit ferments allows the yeast to keep moving. So using a ~18% abv yeast, I could likely reach port consistency without fortifying at all. Anyone have any insight between the two methods?

Lastly, any thoughts on the f-pac? I have no experience with these at all. Do people find them necessary with fruit wines and/or fruit ports? What role do they serve, exactly - adding back flavor after fermentation? Do these wines really lose that much of the flavor to begin with? What is the best way you would go about that for a fruit port such as this?

Any other tips for me before I buy a whole bunch of fruit and start? Many thanks for all the help!

 

[SBWs]

I've only done this once so I don't know how much it will help. I set the SG at 1.115 and started it with Lalvin K1-v1116 yeast. Then every time the SG got to between 1.010 and 1.025 I'd use juice and sugar to bump it back up to 1.030. I kept doing this until the yeast gave out. I figured I was around 19% but didn't even try and do the math, because the volume is always changing from adding juice and sugar. I then used parsons square to figure out how much blackberry brandy to add to get up around 21%.

 

[greyday]

My two cents--use a concentrate to back it. You CAN make a port with just fruit, but A) it'll take a ridiculous volume of fruit (to my tastes anyway) and B) a lot more sugar. I made my plum with a can of syrah syrup and it gave it way more body. Though if you go with blackberry, it already has a nice flavor (my marionberry is currently my favorite)...

Also expect to use a lot of brandy. You can supplement with everclear, though. If you want some of the brandy flavor, you can always use a bottle of brandy and then everclear to bump it up to where you want it.

Here's the calculator I used:

http://vinoenology.com/calculators/fortification/

Good luck!

 

[ckassotis]

Thanks to both of you.

I'll keep that in mind, SBWs. I was thinking of doing something similar, just wasn't sure if people tended to do that or just start very sweet and let it ferment dry and then get the ABV up with brandy/everclear. Hm.

@ Grey, the recipe I have has some grape concentrate for body as well. Good tip! I have heard that without it the body lacks a certain something. I believe the recipe calls for approx. 8 lbs of fruit and 8 oz concentrate per gallon. Still a ton of fruit. Thinking of doing somewhere in the area of 1.5-2 gallons. I figure that will make a bit more once it is fortified, with the addition of the brandy.

Why do you say to expect to use a lot? I figure if I even get the most out of the EC1118, at 18%, I wouldn't want to add too much, and wouldn't need to, to get it up to around 20%.

 

[Wade E]

With a port you want to almost dbl the amount of fruit and youll want to leave it in as long as possible to extract as much flavor,body,and tannin as possible! I wouls use about 15 lbs of fruit per gallon and also Id use extra light dry malt extract for added body @ about .5 lbs per gallon. You will want to feed the sugar incremently as suggested above and then use like E&J Brandy or grain alc to fortify it while suagr is still high or make an fpac with about 1/3rd the total amount of fruit used per this batch. I would not try to reuse this fruit when done as there shouldnt be anything left with this 1!

 

[Turock]

Well--------there is ANOTHER way. It' called freeze concentration and is the way to get high alcohol without fortification, doing any fermentation acrobatics, or using high alcohol tolerant cultures--which STILL won't get the alcohol high enough for the purposes of port.

Start with a nice, highly flavored wine to your liking. Save up 2 liter pop bottles. When the wine is aged, and ready, transfer into the pop bottles and freeze. Take out frozen bottles, uncap, turn upside down in a container and let it thaw and drip until all you have remaining in the bottle is ice---disgard the ice. The result will be high alcohol "wine" ready to be port. You can oxidize it slightly, if you want, to make a tawny port. Ruby port isn't oxidized.

There's always been much discussion about the fact that freeze concentration is illegal. The state of Ohio said they really don't care about this as long as it's not sold---a homebrewer is allowed to do it. You can research the subject for yourself and do what you feel is correct. As always, Fed law can supercede state but I'm sure the feds won't come to your house and open your freezer.

 

[ckassotis]

Well first, thought I would just go ahead and post Jack Keller's recipe. Makes it easier I suppose.

Blackberry Port Wine

8 lb. ripe blackberries
1/2 pt. red grape concentrate
1/2 c. light dry malt
1-3/4 lb. granulated sugar
1/2 tsp. pectic enzyme
1-1/2 tsp. acid blend
5 to 5-1/2 pt. water (depends of size of berries)
1 crushed Campden tablet
1/2 tsp. yeast energizer
1 tsp. yest nutrient
1 pkt. Lalvin K1-V1116 (Montpellier) or a port wine yeast


Wash and crush blackberries in nylon straining bag and strain juice into primary fermentation vessel. Tie top of nylon bag and place in primary. Stir in all other ingredients except pectic enzyme, yeast and red grape concentrate. Stir well to dissolve sugar, cover well, and set aside for 8-12 hours. Add pectic enzyme, recover, and set aside additional 8-12 hours. Add yeast, cover, stir ingredients daily, and press pulp in nylon bag to extract flavor. When specific gravity is 1.030 (about 5 days), strain juice from bag and siphon liquor off sediments into secondary fermentation vessel. Fit airlock and set aside. Rack in three weeks and again in two months. When wine is clear and well past last evidence of fermentation, stabilize, add red grape concentrate, and set aside for 3 weeks. If no evidence of refermentation, rack again and bottle. Allow at least a year to mature, but will improve for several years. [Author's own recipe]

 

[ckassotis]

So it does uses the malt for enhancing the body, as well as some concentrate. I was a little astounded at the amount of fruit you suggested though. 8 lbs already seems like a lot - you think it needs even more than that?

So use something like EC 1118 with an 18 abv tolerance, and then do the incremental sugar addition. I can do that. Sounds like the best plan.

Fortify while sugar is still high? Wouldn't I want to let it ferment dry prior to adding any alcohol to raise the volume? I would certainly want to add alcohol in before adding an f-pack, if I understand correctly. And likely add some K meta also.

I was reading another forum (or this one?) where they used this recipe and the maker seemed to successfully use it to make some wine (not port) afterwards. I thought that throughout the post he was chatting with a Wade, but I could be remembering wrong. I know I have the link somewhere, will have to look for it.

I'll have to look into the whole freeze concentrating thing. Sounds interesting!

 

[Turock]

Interesting AND the easiest way to make port. PLUS--it tastes really fabulous. It's the cheaters way of making port, as real port is a whole interesting story in itself.

If I remember correctly, freeze concentration gives you an ABV of 24% when done from a 12-12.5% wine.

 

[Wade E]

8 lbs is what most of us use for a normal wine! Rember that for the most part most of us are cheating as the true way to make mOst wines is not to use any water at all!!! As for freeze distilation that is actually illegaland id like that removed from this forum! Im at work and on my phone and dont have the time at the minute to remove it myself!

 

[Turock]

Yeah--I figured you'd remove the post, so no harm done. With research, it's still quite up in the air about legality for a homewine maker to do it. They don't want commercial concerns who sell it to do it. Still seems crazy to me--sure it has to do with with taxation on abv.

I see ads on here for stills--so why is freeze distillation illegal? But as a mod--do what you think you need to.

 

[ckassotis]

Interesting. I think JK's recipes call for 2-4 lbs for a normal medium bodied fruit wine. But yeah, I do realize we are already cheating a bit. Haha. I wonder though if anyone truly ever does it the right way. I can't imagine commercial wineries not adding some water, but perhaps they don't!

As for the easy way, I try to go out of my way to not make things easy on myself. Haha. I figure I learn more that way. I'd like to end up with a winery of my own at some point down the road, so I figure the more I can learn now, the better!

 

[Turock]

Basically, it's really hard to make port the correct way, for a home winemaker. You should Google port and see how it's REALLY made--very interesting story. The way I've always seen home winemakers do it is thru fortification or freeze distillation.

 

[ckassotis]

http://forum.finevinewines.com//for...W=Blackberry+port&PN=10&title=get-ready-waldo

That is the thread I was talking about. Pretty lengthy, but it looks like Wade is present on that forum also! Waldo is who I had remembered, but you are both present over there it seems.

 

[ckassotis]

What is the correct way? I was under the impression that most commercial wineries, including those in Porto, fortify their wines. Not with brandy, but with aguardente.

For example, this is an article on Graham's port, which as you may know, is considered one of the original Port Houses in Porto, Portugal.

http://malvedos.wordpress.com/winemaking/

 

[ckassotis]

Though this does raise the point that these great port houses are NOT letting their wines ferment to dryness, they are stopping at ~10% abv and fortifying from there to reach their desired 20% and keeping the residual sugar as their sweetener.

 

[Turock]

We make fruit wines with all juice and no water. I would think you'd want an intense tasting wine. We make alot of blackberry and I would say to go with what they said--more fruit will give you a full-bodied complex wine. I would suggest 6-8 pounds per gallon to attempt what you're doing.

That was interesting about the malt. Hope you try this and see how you do. I always encourage experiments because you learn so much from the result.

 

[Turock]

Yes---there you go. That is sounding familiar,now. It's been a few years since I read about REAL port production. Are you going to follow what Waldo is suggesting? That carboy looks delicious!!

 

[ckassotis]

Interesting! I bet no water added at all would certainly be intense. There is a local winery here in Missouri that put out a blackberry port last year that was simply to die for. I will need to ask them about it, see if they used 100% berries or what. Interesting.

I think I will aim for 20 pounds then, and make 2 gallons (~16) with a few pounds left over that I can use to either juice and sweeten after, or to make an f-pac with.

I have the malt and other ingredients ordered, will continue to post as I get this project going!

 

[ckassotis]

The JK recipe I believe is what Waldo/Jobe were doing in that thread. I think he might have made 1-2 small variations, will need to re-read to be sure. I will aim to follow that pretty closely though.