Barrel fermenting for break-in...Mead?

[the_rayway]

Hi all,
I'm getting a 20L vadai barrel for Christmas, and so have been doing all of my reading up while I wait (and wait, and wait).

I've been reading about barrel fermenting a white for breaking in the barrel - my only issue with that is that I detest Chardonnays. At least every one that I've tried just tastes like yuck to me.

Soooo, what I'm wondering is: could I ferment a mead in the barrel? I'll be doing up a 15G batch of plain mead, which I plan to oak a bit. I'm thinking that if I ferment 5G's in the barrel, I can then mix it into the the other 10G's to disperse the oak flavour a bit before deciding if I want to cycle the rest through there before the reds start going in for ageing.

Anyone have any insight on this? Ideally the barrel will be for my fresh grape and kit reds (dry) once it's gone through the initial white ferment.

 

[Pumpkinman]

I don't see why you couldn't ferment in the barrel. I didn't break in my barrels, I put my red wine in it and tasted after a week, than a month, and I actually have a brunello in the barrel just under 6 months that I'll be rotating out today.

 

[the_rayway]

Thanks Pumpkin! I'm just trying to get all of my information and research put together

 

[Pumpkinman]

Perfect! Research and Info are the two best tools you can get!

 

[west_end]

So did you ferment a mead in the new barrel? How did it work out.

Why do you think is was necessary to break in a new barrel this way?

Thanks

 

[the_rayway]

So did you ferment a mead in the new barrel? How did it work out.

Why do you think is was necessary to break in a new barrel this way?

Thanks

Hey West end: I'm getting the barrel for this Christmas, so haven't gotten my paws on it yet.

When I was doing my research in the barrels and oak forum, I noticed that quite a few people barrel fermented a white (chardonnay or sauv blanc) in the barrel first in order to 'blow off' that first-round, too-intense oak taste instead of putting a finished red in there and potentially over-oaking it within a couple of days.

I was wondering about fermenting a mead because I don't like chards/sauv blancs and neither does anyone I know. I do, however, like mead and had a 15 gallon batch planned for this year. I figured if I barrel fermented 5 gals and it got over-oaked I could just blend with the other 10 to balance it out.

The jury is still out on what I'm going to do. I've got three reds lined up to put in there, and am still debating: a) ferment a mead, b) ferment a red, or c) just put the first red in there and watch it like a hawk.

What are your thoughts?

 

[west_end]

Hey West end: I'm getting the barrel for this Christmas, so haven't gotten my paws on it yet.

When I was doing my research in the barrels and oak forum, I noticed that quite a few people barrel fermented a white (chardonnay or sauv blanc) in the barrel first in order to 'blow off' that first-round, too-intense oak taste instead of putting a finished red in there and potentially over-oaking it within a couple of days.

I was wondering about fermenting a mead because I don't like chards/sauv blancs and neither does anyone I know. I do, however, like mead and had a 15 gallon batch planned for this year. I figured if I barrel fermented 5 gals and it got over-oaked I could just blend with the other 10 to balance it out.

The jury is still out on what I'm going to do. I've got three reds lined up to put in there, and am still debating: a) ferment a mead, b) ferment a red, or c) just put the first red in there and watch it like a hawk.

What are your thoughts?

What kind of mead are you thinking of using? I have a carboy of a honey/ginger and a very nice, high octane honey/raspberry mead. I do not think either would benefit from Oak. Are you thinking of fermenting in the new barrel because it would knock down the oak the most? It seems like fermenting in the barrel would make it hard to clean and sanitize.

Also what do you think of skipping the oak during the fermentation process? From what I have been reading there are a lot of benefits of having oak in the primary fermenter.

My plan right now is to have two or three carboys cleared and ready to go for the new barrel and watch them like a hawk. I was talking with someone today and they said there first wine was in their new barrel for 4 days before it needed to rotate out.

 

[Boatboy24]

I'm not a big Chardonnay drinker, but the first thing I did with my second barrel is ferment a Chardonnay in it. I'm glad I did and wish I had done something similar with the first. So for those thinking about getting a barrel, give thought to fermenting something in it before you start rotating wines through. Especially if you plan to use it for reds. Once that first red goes through, it's all red from there.

 

[the_rayway]

If I go with a barrel fermented mead, it will be a traditional (to start). And yes, exactly, to knock down the oak. I do have concerns about cleaning the barrel afterwards, which is why I'm still tossing the idea around instead of having made a final decision

It seems most people go for a 2-4-6, or 4-6-8 week schedule to break in a barrel and fermenting apparently knocks the first number (either 2 or 4 weeks) off that schedule.

I've used oak chips/sticks in several of my meads so far and they have really done good things for them: a Blackberry, a Raspberry, and an Orange Creamsicle. Mead and oak seem to be a really good match!

 

[Boatboy24]

With both of mine, I did the break in process as written, then let the barrel sit for 4 or 5 days filled with a sulphite solution, just to be sure it didn't spring any leaks. After that, the first had a Super Tuscan in it for 5 weeks. The second had it's first wine for only three weeks, but that's only because it was in the older barrel for 8 weeks prior to that. Having said that, it is better to take the wine out too early, than too late. I know a few people here will put their first wine through for a few weeks, then run it back through again in a few months, when they can leave it longer.

Bottom line: a person's preferred level of oak is what should determine the time in the barrel. So be sure to have at least a couple batches ready when you first start.

 

[knockabout]

I'm not a big Chardonnay drinker, but the first thing I did with my second barrel is ferment a Chardonnay in it. I'm glad I did and wish I had done something similar with the first. So for those thinking about getting a barrel, give thought to fermenting something in it before you start rotating wines through. Especially if you plan to use it for reds. Once that first red goes through, it's all red from there.

Why do you wish you had dne t his with both? I have a 23l vadai I love, we had planned to run a white through first knowing it was the only shot, but we went right to reds, we tasted once a week and rotate our reds through shorter time than most folks in the beginning, but I love what the barrel does for the wine. We liken it to eating your cake batter vs. eating the baked cake I'd love to get another vadai and wonder if boatboy thinks a white first changes what your barrel will impart to the next red coming thru or just wishes he had a barrel aged white? Thanks!

 

[WVMountaineerJack]

Ray, I dont have a barrel but like your idea. Brother Adam who bread Buckfast bees used to ferment his meads and age them in oak barrels. We do put some oak staves in our meads and it goes very well with the meads, we also oak melomels and it turns out very nice. Since you must like oak I know you are going to like oaked mead. You will probably like it so much you will get another barrel just for oaking meads and forget about wasting your time with red wines We went to a meadery in Maryland, Orchid Cellars, that makes Polish meads, they age their meads in oak barrels, man the wonderful smells in their barrel room, of oak, and mead, and fresh honey fermenting was unbeleivable. Running a mead through your new barrel is going to be a good thing. Why would you have concerns about cleaning your barrel, there wont be any sticky honey left in it, you just rinse out the yeast and fill it back up with something else right?

WVMJ

 

[Boatboy24]

Why do you wish you had dne t his with both?

Mostly just because it would be another chance to barrel ferment. No reason you couldn't do it on a red though. Without a grape pack. I do think the barrel that was fermented in imparts a more mellow oak flavor. I don't know if that's just because of the fermentation, or simply that it's a different barrel.

 

[the_rayway]

WVMJ - I've been lightly oaking my meads so far and they are awesome (med toast oak chips mostly). And that is exactly what I'm thinking about for my next barrel - either a small 10L for meads, or a 1-2 litre for 'specialty' things like vanilla, fruit port, etc.

The visual you gave from Orchid Cellars just made my mouth water. Oh my. If we're out that way ever, I'm totally checking it out!

 

[seth8530]

Nice to hear from another mazer. What kind of honey do you plan on using for your mead?

 

[the_rayway]

Hey Seth!
Last year's batches were made from: clover, sunflower, wildflower, and alfalfa. All too young to tell much, but I have been pleased with what I've tasted so far. Got them all from a local apiary just outside of town.

This fall I ordered 60 Lbs of Canola honey from a guy I know, but he STILL hasn't shown up with it. I may go back to the lady I ordered from last year to get whatever she has left. Even picked up a demijohn to make this year's batch. Total bummer.

Thinking of biting the bullet and ordering some Orange blossom and Tupelo from somewhere. Then I'd like to do 1 Gallon side-by-sides with traditionals and see what's best to my taste.

How about you? What honey are you using? How long have you been making mead? I assume you're on GotMead? I am as well, screen name rayway. I mostly look around there though, not much in the way of posts from me I'd love to hear what you're up to!

 

[seth8530]

Yeah, it seems to be the norm for mead to take quite a bit of time to get ready. My advice for you is to stay patient and avoid sweetening them ( I managed to ruin a year old batch of mead this way... my fault). I would certinally not be a happy camper if some guy shorted me out on 30kg of honey.... Also, I declare you are fortunate that you are able to get varietal honey in your local area.

BTW, would you mind defining your definition of traditional? Some people use traditional and show mead in a flip flopped interchangeable manner sometimes.

In the past I have made a mutt strawberry mead which used some farmers honey.. Which I subsequently ruined after one year of aging by adding too much honey back. I currently have a 6 gallon batch of carrotblossom/meadowfoam that I think I used french oak on that is around 13 months old right now. I also have a 6 gallon batch of carrotblossom/meadowfoam that I added 1.5 gallons of pure cranberry juice to. I plan on sweetening that guy a bit and getting him ready to bottle today. Also, from this year I made a 12 gallon batch of White Sage "rose" that I made by chucking this years pressed pinot noir skins into a mead must. So that should be a fun one I believe.

So, I have a decent bit of experience making my own mead.. Just not much getting to enjoy the final product yet.

I am a patron level member on the gotmead forums, but I have since dropped my membership to the forum. It seems that the gotmead forum has lots of useful information on it but it just feels like the whole place is on deaths door. However, on the gotmead forum my screen name is seth8530.

 

[SouthernChemist]

My advice for you is to stay patient and avoid sweetening them ( I managed to ruin a year old batch of mead this way... my fault).

I completely agree. I've had commercial meads that were so backsweetened that they were undrinkable. There is a local meadery near here that does make an off-dry traditional mead. It was better than their semi-sweet version, but I think it would be even better if it were closer to dryness. Course, it really does depend on your honey quality. Lower quality seems to stick out like a sore thumb when its dry, which is maybe why people I've met will drastically sweeten it.

A barrel fermented mead would be pretty interesting to try.

 

[the_rayway]

Hey Seth,
I was actually reading your Rose Pyment the other day. Good stuff!

Traditional Mead to me is made simply with honey, yeast, water, and any additives you might need. Show mead is only honey, yeast and water - nothing else. Is this your definition as well?

I also made the mistake of too much sweetning in my first mead (Rhubarb Berry). It's very much a dessert wine now. And I made a full 5 gal recipe. Ugh. I'm doing better with my others (Blackberry, Raspberry, Orange Creamsicle, Pear, Lilac, etc.)

You guys are lucky that you can get things like carrotblossom, OB, and tupelo. They just aren't available up here! I'm soo ready to try OB or Tupelo.

Southern Chemist - I'll let you all know how it goes! I think I may get some sunflower honey to break it in. The jury's still out on that though.

 

[seth8530]

I completely agree. I've had commercial meads that were so backsweetened that they were undrinkable. There is a local meadery near here that does make an off-dry traditional mead. It was better than their semi-sweet version, but I think it would be even better if it were closer to dryness. Course, it really does depend on your honey quality. Lower quality seems to stick out like a sore thumb when its dry, which is maybe why people I've met will drastically sweeten it.

A barrel fermented mead would be pretty interesting to try.

Yeah, looks we are on the same page. Infact, one of the reasons why I am making mead is because I have yet to find a commercial mead this is anything more than a gimmick or an overly sweetened honey pot. So, I feel your pain.

Hey Seth,
I was actually reading your Rose Pyment the other day. Good stuff!

Traditional Mead to me is made simply with honey, yeast, water, and any additives you might need. Show mead is only honey, yeast and water - nothing else. Is this your definition as well?

I also made the mistake of too much sweetning in my first mead (Rhubarb Berry). It's very much a dessert wine now. And I made a full 5 gal recipe. Ugh. I'm doing better with my others (Blackberry, Raspberry, Orange Creamsicle, Pear, Lilac, etc.)

You guys are lucky that you can get things like carrotblossom, OB, and tupelo. They just aren't available up here! I'm soo ready to try OB or Tupelo.

Southern Chemist - I'll let you all know how it goes! I think I may get some sunflower honey to break it in. The jury's still out on that though.

Yeps looks like we are on the same ladder. I really hope the pinot rose mead turns out... I honestly have no idea why people make show meads ^__^ But to each their own eh? Seeing that you read the gotmead forum, I am sure you are already quite familiar with how important scheduled nutrient additions are for the mead making process?


BTW, I would give these guys http://www.flyingbeeranch.net/ A call or email. They are extremely friendly and they might be able to deliver to you. Who knows? Their honey is top notch.. However, it is a shame that some of their prices went up.. Before most of their honey went around 20 ish bucks for the half gallon.

Infact, just a few days ago I received my "sample" package from them which included buckwheat, carrot blossom, pumpkin, blackberry and raspberry honey... I can say, they are all quite awesome in their own ways.