Bad batch of sorbate

[SarahRides]

Another case of maybe sorbate gone bad! Most of my small 375ml bottles (all bottled around the same time) have sediment and are fizzy. I took the proper steps (sorbated, waited, very lightly sweetened a few, waited a month) with no signs of re-fermentation. Haven't even looked at them since last fall. I checked them today.............apparently they took more than the few weeks that I had waited to start fermenting again! Lesson learned, sweeten BEFORE bulk aging, not a month before bottling...........they may take longer than a few weeks to start fermenting again! Ugh.......maybe one of these days I'll get a batch right!

 

[djrockinsteve]

It's hard to determine the true problem. Is it the sorbate? Even though you add sorbate there may still be living or dormant yeasts in your wine.

You add sugar and they will feed upon the sugar until they die but won't reproduce.

Just food for thought.

 

[Poni]

Maybe try filtration to reduce the yeast population, then in theory the sorbate would take care of the rest. This is what i do, and so far it is working. I like to sorbate, sweeten, run through the #2 and #3 buon vino pads through my mini-jet. So far no re-ferments. Lucky, The #3 pad is by no means sterile, but it will at least "reduce" yeast.
good luck

 

[rjb222]

The use of sorbate is always done with an addition of sulfite first. The sulfite will knock down the live yeast cells the sorbate encapsulates the unhatched yeast cells so that they can not come in contact with residual sugars. Just adding sorbate there are the live yeast cells left to start to re-ferment these guys just go to work and start building a new population.

 

[WVMountaineerJack]

Was your wine clear and ready to be bottled? How old is your sorbate? The standard advice is that it should be fresh each season. There is no reason not to backsweeten at bottling time if your wine is ready to be bottled. CC

 

[SarahRides]

I also added the sulfite, I honestly have no idea how old the sorbate was.......but I think probably what I'll start doing is just buying a small package of it at a time, and adding it to several of the wines at once, that way I know it isn't old and there won't be any question. At the time, I didn't even think that sorbate would be ineffective if it was older.

In general what I have been in the practice of doing is letting it finish it's fermentation, then clear for a few months. I then rack it off of the sediment, then add the sorbate/sulfite, then let it finish clearing. I try to avoid adding clearing agents unless it's being really stubborn. Once it is completely cleared, I will backsweeten (if I'm even backsweetening, some of them I leave dry). I've been trying to be more in the habit of letting it sit at least a month before bottling.

I'm just going to have to be a lot more careful of the sorbate/sulfite I use, maybe add it earlier on, age it a little longer.......

 

[Turock]

I have to say that I don't fully understand why so many people have this problem. What kind of wine is this?

It almost sounds like it had a lot of CO2 in it. Is that possible?

We let our wines fully age and clear. Backsweeten, add meta and sorbate and bottle immediately after, and we've never had a re-ferment in 23 years.

 

[Wade E]

I always do all my sweetening and everything right after fermentation then age it just because Ive had a few cloud up after adding only inverted sugar, must be a chemical imbalance or something as many many others are just fine after using the same procedure. Ive had that happen also Sarah.

 

[SarahRides]

I guess I'm just still learning (a lot of times the hard way) what works best for timing, etc. I have 4 or 5 more which will be next to be bottled probably in August. I was going to wait to sweeten them until probably June and give it a few months, but I'll probably do it much earlier. A lot of wines I don't really backsweeten at all, or do just a little bit. If I'm not backsweetening, I was in the habit of not adding any sorbate at all, but if there is even an ounce of sugar in there, it seems the yeasties find it after it's bottled! These were all wines that weren't gassy when I bottled, and there is sediment in the bottle, so I'm pretty sure it's actually fermentation and not just excess CO2.

 

[djrockinsteve]

Aging is important. It helps kill off the few remaining yeast thru atrition along with the alcohol. Many of those who over the past year had this occur with skeeter pee where bottling was rushed since S. P. doesn't need aged.

I try to do 6 gallons allowing me to definitely not suck up any sediment. Clear 6 weeks. Then age 6-12 months.

Carefully rack and sweeten. Age another few weeks under room temps. Then bottle.

The wine I had referment ( a skeeter pee) was some extra I bottled rather than mess with 1 gallon.

Many say they had bad sorbate but living yeasts will still feed on sugar. It may not be bad sorbate but carrying over some yeast.

 

[SarahRides]

So Steve, because I don't use clarifying agents (unless absolutely necessary), should I let mine bulk age longer since it takes longer to clear? Since there is probably yeast in there longer than if I did add clarifying agents? Maybe that is part of my problem. Should I wait until it's clear (with less yeast in it) to sorbate and then backsweeten when there's less yeast in there?

 

[djrockinsteve]

BINGO! By not clearing the wine yeasts which are free floating are going dormant and awakening with the sugar addition. Why don't you use sparkolloid or bentonite?

Wines will be crystal clear and you will end this problem.

The only way to see if your sorbate is bad is by hydrometer readings and seeing if all the sugar is consumed or partially.

 

[SarahRides]

I wouldn't add it, I figured it took longer, but usually it would clear very nicely on it's own without adding them. I'm thinking I need to re-vamp my wine making techniques! Now I have the ability to cold stabilize, which I want to start doing with my wines now too. (I know, a whole other topic!

Most of my wines in the basement now are cleared anyways, even the ones I wasn't planning on adding sorbate too, I probably will, and then will sweeten soon instead of waiting. I've got room in my fridge for one carboy, so I'm going to start cold stabilizing them one at a time, then maybe by August they will be ready to bottle.

 

[rob]

Boy, glad this never happens to me......hahaha almost daily. Funny, I have never had this happen with kit wine only home made

 

[SarahRides]

Me too Rob! I also haven't made a kit wine in about a year, these are all my experimental and fruit wines!

 

[Turock]

Sarah--How long are you aging these wines before bottling? Are you being careful, when racking, not to get even the slightest amount of sediment sucked up into the racking wand? How much sediment are you seeing in the bottle?

 

[jswordy]

Here's the scoop on sorbate:

Potassium sorbate has a shelf life of 6-8 months. It is about half-strength after a year (so you could double your dose). It should be stored in the proverbial cool, dry place, and away from sunlight which hastens its deterioration.

I always wait until the wine has clarified before I add the final k meta and sorbate doses to stabilize. Then I wait some more, both to make sure there is no further fermentation and to see if additional settling occurs. That wait can be from 3 days to a month, depending on the wine condition. I have a blueberry right now that is going to make me wait at least another month. I don't use fining agents, only time. I have found that using time means I never have any trouble with problems that pop up in the bottling cycle, as long as I am patient.

When I bottle, the first step is to rack over to a clean carboy. Some rack to a bottling bucket instead. During that racking, I take a sample for taste testing. If no further work is needed on the wine, I bottle. Otherwise, I adjust in the carboy and then bottle.