Timing of sugar/sorbate addition for back-sweetening

[BarrelMonkey]

I thought about posting this in the recent Back Sweetening thread, but figured it was sufficiently distinct to warrant a new topic...

What is your timing for addition of sugar and sorbate when you're back-sweetening wine? I am about to bottle my first white wines, and although I'm happy with how they taste I think they need a little sugar to balance the (pH 3.2, TA 8.4g/L) acidity. Fermentation ended 10/9/22, so currently at about the 6-month mark in bulk aging.

In the section on sorbate addition, Daniel Pambianchi's 'Modern Home Winemaking' includes the direction to 'Wait at least 2 weeks before and after sweetening'. I take this to mean (i) add sorbate, (ii) 2 weeks later, if no sign of sedimentation add sugar then (iii) 2 weeks later, if no signs of sedimentation and/or refermentation, bottle.

Curious to know if this is what other folk do? I've seen other recommendations that suggest to simply add sorbate, sugar and SO2 immediately prior to bottling. It seems to me that there's at least some rationale for doing sorbate first (inhibit yeast reactivation prior to sugar).

 

[winemaker81]

I don't believe there is a wrong answer, as long as you add sorbate + K-meta before the sugar. As with other situations in life, apply birth control FIRST ...

I generally rack out of the carboy, add the sorbate + K-meta, backsweeten, and bottle, all within an hour or so.

For the FWK Frutta I started last May, I added the sorbate + K-meta and 1 package of conditioner at the start of bulk aging, and added the second pack 3 months later at bottling time.

 

[Jovimaple]

Wine conditioner has the sorbate and the sweetener together in one package, which tells me they are confident it can be added at the same time.
Edited to cross out my incorrect information. See @winemaker81 Bryan's post below for more info.

If I am using sugar to sweeten, I generally add sorbate and kmeta, then sweeten. Sometimes it's the same day and sometimes I leave it for a few weeks or months until I get around to finishing it. I have bottled Dragonblood and Skeeter Pee right after sweetening, and other wines I have let sit.

 

[winemaker81]

Wine conditioner has the sorbate and the sweetener together in one package, which tells me they are confident it can be added at the same time.

NO! Sorry to shout, but conditioner contains only enough sorbate to keep the package stable. It is not enough to prevent a renewed fermentation in the wine. IIRC, @mainshipfred discovered this through unhappy practical experience.

 

[Jovimaple]

NO! Sorry to shout, but conditioner contains only enough sorbate to keep the package stable. It is not enough to prevent a renewed fermentation in the wine. IIRC, @mainshipfred discovered this through unhappy practical experience.

Oh, yeah. I forgot about the stabilization packet for FWK that goes in before the wine conditioner.

I have only ever used wine conditioner in the FWKs so far. And since I followed the instructions, including using the stabilization packet, I had no refermentation issues. Thanks for catching that.

 

[SLM]

NO! Sorry to shout, but conditioner contains only enough sorbate to keep the package stable. It is not enough to prevent a renewed fermentation in the wine. IIRC, @mainshipfred discovered this through unhappy practical experience.

A question on this. Are you talking about kit wine or scratch wine? (is that a term?) Wine expert conditioner from Northern Brewer says:
Wine Conditioner is a sweetener and stabilizer all in one. Made from liquid invert sugar and potassium sorbate (prevents renewed fermentation). This product allows you to sweeten your wine without worry of fermentation or carbonation in the bottle. Some winemakers use conditioner to reduce aging. Use 2 - 4 ounces per gallon.

 

[winemaker81]

A question on this. Are you talking about kit wine or scratch wine? (is that a term?) Wine expert conditioner from Northern Brewer says:
Wine Conditioner is a sweetener and stabilizer all in one. Made from liquid invert sugar and potassium sorbate (prevents renewed fermentation). This product allows you to sweeten your wine without worry of fermentation or carbonation in the bottle. Some winemakers use conditioner to reduce aging. Use 2 - 4 ounces per gallon.

According to WE, the conditioner from WE is what I said -- it contains enough sorbate to keep that package from fermenting, but not enough for the wine. I emailed WE and got a reply back from Gail, who is awesome at replying.

If we're talking about the same product, Northern Brewer is wrong. I trust WE on this.