Back Sweetening

[AR324]

I wanted to make a blueberry or blackberry wine. I have made blueberry in the past with good success but made it in a claret style. I want to make a batch that is slightly off dry by back sweetening, which I’ve never done as I usually make Merlot, Malbec etc.

I know sorbate and kmeta are used but can’t find the amount used per liter or gallon. Suggestions would be appreciated.

 

[Jovimaple]

I follow the package directions for sorbate, which is 1/2 tsp per gallon, so I used 3 tsp in my latest 6 gallon batch of Skeeter Pee.

For kmeta, I use 1/4 tsp for 5 to 6 gallons.

For what it's worth, if you bulk age the wine for 9 to 12 months before backsweetening, you can skip the sorbate since all the yeastie beasties should be dead by then. I am planning to do that with a peach wine I made this year.

 

[Rice_Guy]

We can use less sorbate with higher alcohol wines.

Sorbic acid WILL break down over time, ethyl sorbate is described as bubble gum flavor/ detectable at about 20 ppm. It is used as a flavoring in the food industry so it is pleasing, OK to consume. Therefore when I use K Sorbate I put the lowest dose in that I can. Usually I let the carboy sit 9 months at RT then skip sorbate.

 

[AR324]

I follow the package directions for sorbate, which is 1/2 tsp per gallon, so I used 3 tsp in my latest 6 gallon batch of Skeeter Pee.

For kmeta, I use 1/4 tsp for 5 to 6 gallons.

For what it's worth, if you bulk age the wine for 9 to 12 months before backsweetening, you can skip the sorbate since all the yeastie beasties should be dead by then. I am planning to do that with a peach wine I made this year.

Perfect. Thanks. I’d prefer less chemicals and usually bulk age for at least 8 months.

 

[AR324]

We can use less sorbate with higher alcohol wines.
View attachment 94319
Sorbic acid WILL break down over time, ethyl sorbate is described as bubble gum flavor/ detectable at about 20 ppm. It is used as a flavoring in the food industry so it is pleasing, OK to consume. Therefore when I use K Sorbate I put the lowest dose in that I can. Usually I let the carboy sit 9 months at RT then skip sorbate.

Thanks. Less is often times better

 

[winemaker81]

I have an experiment in progress -- I just bottled most of a batch of Elderberry from concentrate, adding sorbate prior to backsweetening. I reserved 4 liters and will bottle that in 4 to 6 months without sorbate. I will be conducting taste tests to see how much the sorbate and no-sorbate wines taste alike or differently.

 

[AR324]

I have an experiment in progress -- I just bottled most of a batch of Elderberry from concentrate, adding sorbate prior to backsweetening. I reserved 4 liters and will bottle that in 4 to 6 months without sorbate. I will be conducting taste tests to see how much the sorbate and no-sorbate wines taste alike or differently.

Love to know the outcome of that. I have never used sorbate. I usually bulk for a long time and am never in a hurry to bottle. However, I want to try enhancing the fruit in some fruit wines by trying my hand at back sweetening and don’t want a mess on my hands.

 

[Raptor99]

I like the chart shared by @Rice_Guy. Here is a good article that explains how sorbate works and why the pH and ABV affect how much is needed: http://nanaimowinemakers.com/potassium-sorbate/

Daniel Pambianchi has created a spreadsheet to calculate the amount of sorbate to add based on ABV, pH, and volume. Like @Rice_Guy, I want to add only as much as necessary.

One interesting comment in the article cited above is this:

Sorbic acid is very stable in wine. It does not combine with other elements and thereby lose its potency.

@Rice_Guy I was wondering if you could explain a little more about what you said about sorbate breaking down, including the time frame.

 

[BigDaveK]

Whoa, I wasn't aware of sorbate use and alcohol level. My bad for not doing the research. So when it comes time to back sweeten my dessert wines (all step fed to around 19% ABV) I guess I can skip it. Live and learn!

 

[winemaker81]

@BigDaveK, any time the ABV exceeds the yeast's alcohol tolerance, sorbate is unnecessary. The chocolate raspberry Port I recently bottled is 17.7%. even with EC-1118, I'm certain I could have skipped the stabilizing pack. If I had it to do again, I'd have added enough Everclear to bump it to 19%.

When we bottle the 2021 wines, I'm reserving 4 liters, back sweetening, and bumping to 21% with Everclear. Between the age (>10 months) and the ABV, no sorbate needed.

 

[Rice_Guy]

@Raptor99 I am on the learning curve, ,, mainly since I would like to intentionally produce some for training contest judges. I have not hunted enough to find conditions of pH/ temperature/ concentration/ yeast. Organic chem, ,,, fruity esthers are naturally reacted between a acid (sorbic acid or malic etc) and an alcohol (ethyl alcohol)

(from Nov Winemaker Magazine)
I have come across several wines which have it and kept a third full bottle for several weeks > tried to pass demonstration samples at a vinters meeting and been disappointed that bubble gum is reduced and acetaldehyde is the dominant aromatic.

 

[hounddawg]

higher ABV who'd a thunk
Dawg

 

[Arne]

who'd a thunk it? You close to the store in the ozark hills? Was there a couple months ago. Arne.

 

[Piccyman]

I just keep adding sugar to the wine to a specific SG, when it’s stops fermenting I leave it a year, then bottle it.
I always take the wine to a point where the alcohol kills the yeast, I quite like the sweetness at 1.007.

 

[SeniorHobby]

So if I am understanding this right, my wine that is bulk aged for 12 months does not need sorbate after back sweetening? I had a couple of bottles that produced quite a few bubbles after adding sugar. Will this cause problems if I bottle?

 

[Raptor99]

I always stabilize before backsweetening, no matter how long it has bulk aged. It is simple and easy insurance against bottle bombs.

 

[winemaker81]

So if I am understanding this right, my wine that is bulk aged for 12 months does not need sorbate after back sweetening? I had a couple of bottles that produced quite a few bubbles after adding sugar. Will this cause problems if I bottle?

I tried no-sorbate with a 13+ month old wine and got refermentation in the bottle. So I resumed adding sorbate when backsweetening.

 

[ChuckD]

So if I am understanding this right, my wine that is bulk aged for 12 months does not need sorbate after back sweetening? I had a couple of bottles that produced quite a few bubbles after adding sugar. Will this cause problems if I bottle?

My track record with no sorbate at one year(ish) is 3 for 4… that fourth one became purple volcanos.

This one was 11 months since fermentation was complete. I had to unbottle something like 7 gallons of wine!

 

[Jovimaple]

I just bottled a 14 month aged wine after backsweetening, with no sorbate. Fingers crossed it's not a tornado!

 

[BigDaveK]

My track record with no sorbate at one year(ish) is 3 for 4… that fourth one became purple volcanos.
View attachment 110414
This one was 11 months since fermentation was complete. I had to unbottle something like 7 gallons of wine!

I never get tired of seeing that photo!