Anyone ever add Vanilla Beans to their wine?

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smurfe

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I started my Raspberry wine from the Vintner's Harvest wine base. I have been mulling the idea of adding some vanilla flavor to the wine by adding a vanilla bean or two to the secondary after I rack from the primary. I am making a 3 gallon batch. I plan on sweetening it a bit to suit my wife's tastes. I still can't decide if I want to add oak or not as I have never had a sweetened fruit/berry wine with oak. I have had dry fruit wines with oak and it is nice. I dunno if I add the vanilla though, to add any oak. Any comments or suggestions on the vanilla? Oak to a sweeter wine? Both together?


Smurfe
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I think Masta has added them to some of his Meads Smurf so I bet he can advise you
 
Smurfe I would add no more than 2 beans for 3 gals and I think you get the best extraction of vanilla if you follow the same method as when making Creme Brulee or ice cream. Split the beans length ways, scrape the inside with your knife and than add everything to the secondary.
 
Sounds like a plan. I didn't know the potency of the beans. Didn't know if I should put one, two, or more in. Anyone have an opinion on how any oak in this wine would be? I don't know if the flavors of raspberry, vanilla and oak would be. Comments?


Thanks


Smurfe
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Raspberry Vanilla Wine??? wow sounds intresting... Sounds like to much of a good thing...Definately would try that!
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Found this article in the archives of Winemaker magazine. Makes me think harder if I want to use a whole bean in my wine or not. I have used pure vanilla extract in wines before and was disappointed with the results. I added pure vanilla extract to my Kumquat Mead. I had a mild vanilla aroma but no real flavor. The aroma diminished by the time I bottles. I guess I should of added it right at bottling time. I added it to that batch during fermentation. Time to put my thinking and decision cap on. I don't know if I really agree with this article or not but they are the experts, not me.


Smurfe
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Source: http://winemakermag.com/mrwizard/245.html



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<TD vAlign=top width="85%">What would happen if you added a vanilla bean to red wine in hopes of getting some vanilla flavors traditionally given off by oak barrels?</TD></TR>
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Dear Wine Wizard,
I often hear about the vanilla flavors in red wines. I know that those flavors are derived over time from aging in oak barrels. I wanted to know what would happen if you added a vanilla bean or vanilla extract to a red wine?
R. Circe
East Lyme, Connecticut

The Wine Wizard replies: It’s illegal for commercial winemakers to add anything non-Vitis vinifera to their table wine and still have it be labeled as such. However, I’m sure that many an enterprising home winemaker has done what you suggest. Indeed, since vanilla (natural or artificial) is a lovely flavor and aromatic component of many foods and beverages, it makes perfect sense to consider it as a wine additive.

A compound called vanillin is responsible for the vanilla-like aroma that is often associated with oak aging, especially of Bordeaux varietals (Cabernet Sauvignon, Merlot and Cabernet Franc). Vanillin is one of the six-membered benzene ring structures (remember your high school chemistry course?).

Commercial vanilla extract is high in vanillin, or compounds that smell remarkably like it, and I could see a small amount being an interesting component in some styles of homemade wine.

The main challenge to using any aroma or
flavor-boosting compound is how to do it in such a way that the results are pleasing to the winemaker. My first piece of advice is to be conservative. Commercially-available vanilla extracts are potent liquids and, as any cook knows, a little goes a long way. As when adding anything that could potentially make your wine objectionable if you over-did it, I recommend conducting the additions on a small scale first.

This technique, known in the industry as bench testing, is a down-sized way to take a look at how a small amount of an additive behaves in a small amount of wine. “Small” will depend upon the size of your lots and the scale of measuring equipment you have to work with. Since most home winemakers don’t have micro-pipettes — pipettes that can measure out microliters, as opposed to milliliters, of a liquid — I suggest trying a drop of something in, say, 200 mL of the wine you’re interested in adding it to. Give that a sniff and a taste and, if you like the addition at that rate, you can feel comfortable applying it to the rest of your batch of wine.

It’s always better to take the test drive a little further just to be sure, however. Seal that 200 mL sample of wine in an airtight, full (topped) container like a baby food jar overnight. Give it the sniff and taste test the next day and see if you’re still happy with the results. Don’t forget to check the clarity of the wine sample as well. Sometimes adding anything — whether it’s a fining agent, oak chips or a flavor extract — can cause imbalances and in-stabilities in wine that will result in a haze or a precipitate. If this is the case, and you still want to proceed with the addition, keep in mind that you will have to rack, fine or filter in order to remove the instability before you bottle your wine.

If you want to experiment with real vanilla beans, an easy way to get their natural aromas and flavors into your wine is to make a homemade vanilla extract. Fill a small, airtight glass container (such as baby food jars or old spice jars) with a neutral ethyl alcohol (such as rum or vodka). Add as many vanilla beans as you can either fit in the jar or afford. Set the jar in a warm or sunny spot, agitate every other day for at least two weeks and soon you’ll have your own homemade vanilla extract! You can use it dropwise in your bench trials, for mixing cocktails, making beverages or just baking cookies. Don’t forget that this trick works great for other dry spices and flowers like cinnamon sticks, cloves, rose petals, lavender flowers and the like. Just be conservative in adding and try only a small amount of extract in a little bit of your wine first.

Vanilla beans are extrememly pungent. Dropping a vanilla bean, or even part of one, into a carboy would probably soon impart too much vanilla aroma and flavor, and that of the wine would be lost very quickly. It’s always dangerous to risk an entire lot, or even an entire carboy, on an unmeasured addition like that. Similarly, as grapes and barrels vary, so do vanilla beans. It’s impossible to predict how much flavor or aroma one bean might impart over another. This is why I recommend creating tinctures, with which one can conduct bench trials.

Keep in mind that aging in oak barrels not only imparts the vanilla flavors, but also contributes to the overall wine structure and character through microoxygenation. Oak tannins, lig-nins, and other carbohydrates are also extracted while a wine ages in oak barrels. You won’t achieve that spectrum of flavors simply by adding vanilla extract to your wine. The delicate interaction of the wine with the oak, lees and air all play a part in how a wine turns out.
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Edited by: smurfe
 
I have added vanilla beans to my six gallon carboy Shiraz, kit. I added the vanilla beans after all ingredients were mixed. After the 14 days of waiting for it's clairity I tasted the batch and loved it's vanilla aroma and taste. The clarity had not settled as of yet so waited another week. Still finding little black specks, from the vanilla beans. I transferred the wine into another 6 gallon carboy, taking out the vanilla beans, in hopes the black specks will settle. I plan to bulk age this batch a few more months. But, really enjoyed it's flavor with the added vanilla beans and will use them again.
Thanks for the article smurfe, I think I will attempt that next time instead of the vanilla black specks.
 
Did you just drop the bean into the carboy, or did you process it like Masta suggested by cutting it in half and scraping the materials out and adding them to the carboy? Did you add them when you racked to the carboy from the primaryor after you stabilized the wine for clearing?Do you feel that filtering will remove the black specks? I filter all of my wines.
Smurfe
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Smurfe the vanilla beans I ordered off the internet came in small pouches. The beans were cut about 1/2 inch in length purchased. I dropped them in the carboy after racking from the primary. Because of the black specks, I decided to rack the wine an additional time and am now letting it bulk age maybe one month or two, undecided on that too (I like the taste). If it still has the black specks; Yes, I do think it would be removed from filtering. I have yet to decide to purchase a filtering kit.Undecided as of yet!?
 
Thanks for the info. My wife ordered my a packet of 3 beans. I believe she ordered them from Penzy's Spices. She ordered me Madagascar Vanilla.


Smurfe
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Smurfe....we racked our Raspberry/Red Grape wine yesterday...I had added some American Oak chips to the carboy for about 10 day last month...when I tasted it yesterday the first flavor was raspberry, then vanilla...the wine is wonderful!!!!
I had never oaked a raspberry before, but will always do it from now on.It must be the Raspberry really picks up the oak flavors...or I just got lucky!!!
 
Northern Winos said:
Smurfe....we racked our Raspberry/Red Grape wine yesterday...I had added some American Oak chips to the carboy for about 10 day last month...when I tasted it yesterday the first flavor was raspberry, then vanilla...the wine is wonderful!!!!
I had never oaked a raspberry before, but will always do it from now on.It must be the Raspberry really picks up the oak flavors...or I just got lucky!!!


Is this wine dry or sweetened? I wouldn't think twice about oaking a dry wine. I just have never had an oaked sweetened wine. How much of the chips did you add. I was wondering about adding them to the primary. I have a big bag of American Oak chips and a smaller bag of American Oak beans/cubes. I believe I even have a few packs of the oak dust or chips that come in the kits. With this being a 3 gallon batch I would need to figure out how much to add.


Smurfe
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It is a dry red wine, and a very good one.The oak really made a difference.
I didn't use much oak...guess I should measure it....a very small hand full is all...and my hands are small.
I did toast it for awhile in a dry small fry pan on the stove top....that might have brought out more flavors too.
 
I find the American White Oak has more vanilla flavors sooner than French oak. Toasting it fresh also seems to contribute to the flavor. Just don't leave it in too long. I think it mellows the tannins out somewhat also toasting it fresh. Smurfe, I think 1/4 cup should give you enough for 3 gallons. Just taste it often like I know you do routinely and you should be fine.
 
appleman said:
I find the American White Oak has more vanilla flavors sooner than French oak. Toasting it fresh also seems to contribute to the flavor. Just don't leave it in too long. I think it mellows the tannins out somewhat also toasting it fresh. Smurfe, I think 1/4 cup should give you enough for 3 gallons. Just taste it often like I know you do routinely and you should be fine.


So would I add a quarter cup of chips to the primary, or wait until I rack to glass? What about the addition of the extra vanilla I plan on adding? Will that affect the amount of chips to add?


Thanks


Smurfe
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I usually add the chips in the primary and cubes in the secondary. The chips are a PITA to get out of the secondary, but the cubes come right out when you rack again. If you are adding the vanilla beans, I'd wait until after racking to secondary and see if you need it at all. I've never done Vanilla, so I can't say if you will even need the oak for vanilla, but it would provide some tannins if needed. You will be the ultimate person to decide the fate of the wine - so use your judgement and we will all await the results.
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Edited by: appleman
 
I put beans in my pom/bb/eldrberry and the vanilla smell is gone. I can't figure out why.
 
I racked my Shirza kit so I could get ready for another kit I had ordered from George. The little black specks from the vanilla beans that I was worried about are gone now. The aroma, and taste is awsome. Can't wait until this one is aged a little more.
 
I hope all of you (Masta, Smurfe, JS, Appleman, et. al.) will do an update to your 'vanilla bean' experience.


I am starting a black (sweet) cherry wine (will pitch yeast tomorrow) and followed this vanilla bean thread way back when. I was intrigued and wanted to try it in something, and the cherry looks like a good candidate.


I've got two of the little suckers (expensive, aren't they!) andplan to add one to the cherry. I saw Masta's admonition, plus the Wine Wizard article, Smurfe, is a good one too -- I can see why you went back and forth on this!


So, what did you end up doing, and has there been anything new to add to the discussion? THANKS!
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I still stick to my method: split the bean and scrape the seeds and then all of it to the secondary.


I tried to cheat with a mead and use extract and it didn't work at all...need the real bean!
 

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