Anybody with Loquat wine experience ?

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FlamingoEmporium

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In another month or so I should have a nice crop of loquats.
ihave a couple of questions / concerns.

sliced loquats tend to brown easily - will that affect wine color ? How do I avoid it ?
since loquats are not a strong flavored fruit,how much should I use for a gallon?
And finally, I have some bananas in the freezer. Been there a while. It’s nice and brown.
should I mix that in with the loquats ? yes or no and why or why not. Thanks guys. Im
 

CortneyD

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I only have advice for the 1st question, lemon juice is usually used to stop browning. Could you sub in lemon juice for the acid blend to minimize oxidation to the fruit? I'd recommend tossing the fruit in the lemon juice to coat them well and then move on to the next steps. Otherwise I would assumed that as they oxidize you'd end up more in the tan/brown end of the color spectrum.
 
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FlamingoEmporium

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I only have advice for the 1st question, lemon juice is usually used to stop browning. Could you sub in lemon juice for the acid blend to minimize oxidation to the fruit? I'd recommend tossing the fruit in the lemon juice to coat them well and then move on to the next steps. Otherwise I would assumed that as they oxidize you'd end up more in the tan/brown end of the color spectrum.
P sounds good. I assume a minor amount of lemon would have little effect on the wine ?
 
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My first question is, "what is a loquat?" [I had to search on it.]

@CortneyD's suggestion of lemon juice makes sense. My only concern is using more lemon juice to protect the fruit than you want in the wine. Depending the amount of juice, you can drain off some the lemon juice and not add it all to the wine.

If it's a mild fruit, use at least 6 lbs per gallon, up to 12 lbs.

Another thought: First freeze the fruit and defrost it. Let's assume you're doing a gallon batch -- have a gallon of water ready with the juice of 3 lemons in it. Slice the fruit and immediately drop in the water. This should reduce or eliminate browning.

Bananas will provide more body. Depending on how mild the loquat is, it may add flavor. I don't have direct experience to work from.
 

VinesnBines

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From Wikipedia it seems a loquat is similar to a peach or apricot. I would say you might not need to worry about browning if you quickly freeze them in halves like peaches. I thawed my peaches quickly and added sugar so browning was not a problem.
Go heavy on the fruit. I don’t know that I would use the bananas. Remove the seeds and use as ripe as you can.
Wikipedia says they make a light wine.
 

Scooter68

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Made a one gallon batch about 3 years ago. Used 4 lbs of de-seeded loquats from our daughter home in California. Taste was too light so if I did it again I'd go with at least 6-8 lbs of fruit. It's an interesting fruit and reminds me in shape, texture and the seeds to a persimmon. I de-seeded them bagged then and then we drove back to NW Arkansas. The wine was a light orange color and I imagine would have been a little darker with more fruit. Cleared nicely with no headaches there. I'd try it again if I could get about 20-24 lbs of de-seeded loquats for a 3 gallon batch.
 

FlamingoEmporium

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Thanks for the advice. Loquats are a unique fruit. Kind of like a sweet tart. There are different varieties and sweetness can vary from variety. When they are fully ripe they are so tasty especially when still warm from the sun. I’ve got two medium small trees. I should be able to get about 6 pounds after what we eat fresh
 

Rice_Guy

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Humm Bryan am I the only one on the forum to have eaten loquats?, ,,,, (I had a tree in Houston) ,,, my numbers on fresh loquat are pH 4.90/ TA 0.37/ SpGrav 1.079
loquat is a small tree of Chinese origin with a large double seed/ roughly 50% of the fruit is pulp the rest is seed, and loquat has lower moisture than a peach. Flavor is fruity like a peach. Mine had fire blight and didn’t live to be sixteen.
@FlamingoEmporium Do you have the ability to run pH? The primary should be pH adjusted. (I have not tried loquat wine so some choices on how to process.) I see them in the oriental rice products store in syrup with good color so my guess is browning is enzymztic oxidation.

My first question is, "what is a loquat?"
:)
* loquat browns badly, option four: if I wanted to minimize browning I would put a gallon or two in a five gallon pail and submerge the fruit in water with 50ppm metabisulphite (AKA the concentration used in wine). At this point take a knife and start removing the seeds. (haven’t looked to see if the seed contains cyanide like cherry seed). As the seeds are removed transfer to a clean solution of 50ppm meta > acidify to pH 3.4 or even 3.2 > freeze for a week or so > thaw and run this in the primary mixing to submerge the fruit, ,,, oxygen (air exposure) will cause browning and can be minimized by having 50ppm meta in all water you use.
* OPTION ONE: wash the loquats > put in a steamer and steam for half an hour with the goal of inactivating browning enzymes > remove and submerge in the primary target five or more pounds of fruit per gallon > adjust the added water to pH 3.0 with sugar to 1.095 > ferment with mixing every day like a red grape > at 1.010 gravity remove fruit > press or squeeze as much juice out as you can > rack the wine to a carboy > top off with water which is adjusted to 1.090 gravity.
* OPTION TWO: wash as #1 > steam as #1 > run through a food mill to remove pulp from seeds > mix five or so pounds of fruit slurry per gallon in a primary > add water and sugar to bring the primary to 1.090/ one gallon > add pectic enzyme > add acid to bring the primary to pH 3.2 to 3.5 (yes wider since pH will equilibrate faster) > mix in bentonite as if a kit > add meta, tannin and yeast > ferment to 1.010 to 1.020 > run the wine slurry through a fine mesh filter bag under gravity, as it seems to stop add light pressure to force more wine out > transfer to a carboy under air lock with 50ppm meta > etc finish but expect cloud (might be more efficient to do bentonite in the secondary)
* OPTION THREE: ignore the browning and just run it. Add meta to the fruit before removing seeds > press onto a bucket so that air is removed > add enough water to cover the fruit > then freeze for at least a week > run in a fine mesh nylon straining bag like peaches or plums > etc primary is at pH at 3.2/ gravity at 1.095/ tannin added etc ( I like color so a would mix in a red color juice instead of water Ex 10% raspberry or 5% cranberry or 1% aronia)

PM me if you have questions. I would test a pound with option three to look for processing issues, or do option four and ignore color. (one of the things I learned in the pilot plant was to have a back up option B or C or even D)
 
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FlamingoEmporium

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loquat is a small tree of Chinese origin with a large double seed/ roughly 50% of the fruit is pulp the rest is seed, and loquat has lower moisture than a peach. Flavor is fruity like a peach. Mine had fire blight and didn’t live to be sixteen.
@FlamingoEmporium Do you have the ability to run pH? The primary should be pH adjusted. .
I’m not sophisticated enough to test ph at this point. I’m leaning toward a combo of option three and 4. I will be freezing for sure (in batches) since fruit doesn’t ripen all at once, and that should help to break down the loquats. I suppose they will still require a little mashing since they are fairly firm for the amount of juice they actually produce. Seeds come out fairly easily so I’m thinking submerge, slice in half freeze

I’ll let you know in about a month and a half .
 

Rice_Guy

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pH acts as a preservative!
All recipes make some assumptions about how much acid to add to get a safe pH so I encourage you to get a narrow range pH paper strips/ (pH 3.0 to 4.0) ,, it should be less than $5 and works well enough on clear/ yellow juices. The reality is that if I have my back yard tree which I can pick every day as the fruit ripens it is totally different from the unripe acidic stuff in the food chain.
By the way,,, passion fruit should have a good pH as 3.00 / TA 5.22% or 2.83/ TA 5.16%
 

Raptor99

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My pears tend to turn brown when prepping, freezing, and thawing them. Last year I added some acid blend and pectic enzyme to the pears before I froze them. Since I know I am going to add acid anyway, I decided how much to add based on my past experience making pear wine. I added a bit less than I figured I would eventually need. Then when I made the wine, I measured pH and adjusted the acid as usual.

The acid helped to prevent browning, and the pectic enzyme could start to work while freezing/thawing. Pear wine from that batch is clearing much faster than the previous year's batch. I think that this will be my new SOP for low acid fruit like pears and peaches.
 

Scooter68

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Keep in mind that "Browning of the fruit does not mean it's oxidizing or that you are losing flavor at all. Try to prep apples and not get some brown in the fruit and when you run it through even a slow juicer like an Omega - what comes out is a brown apple cider/ juice. Taking normal precaustions should be adequate. As I mentioned my Loquat wine turned out a beautiful golden color
 

FlamingoEmporium

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When I get a crop I freeze them. I haven't checked their SG but I imagine it's too low for wine. I have used mine in the secondary added to beer (wheat) and it turned out nicely.
Hmmm, well maybe i’ll add some frozen banana. But some are really sweet to eat, and the juice just runs down your chin…………
 

Rice_Guy

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wines are made with a variety of wet vs dry foods, ,,, ex grape juice vs coffee. With high sugar wet foods I would call wine a preservative/ processing to maintain the calorie. And related to other calorie sources as sour kraut or cheese. Dry wines are more of a synthetic “flavored” sugar wine. Both systems work. When we talk about five or six or ten pounds of fruit per gallon we assume that some water will be involved and some “dry” pulp is a byproduct. When I have a dry/drought crop I normally have more solids/ better flavor. In grapes this is usually called a vintage year (more solids scores higher). If @pproctorga has a low moisture crop it can produce a vintage loquat wine, ,,,, of course as a home wine maker we can double or even triple the fruit solids in the primary with little cost and make every year a vintage year.

The key is do you like the loquat flavor enough that it’s worth the effort? Take it as a given that most of the current sweet is removed and for stability it is acidified making the taste more like Chardonnay.
Hmmm, well maybe i’ll add some frozen banana. But some are really sweet to eat, and the juice just runs down your chin…………
 

FlamingoEmporium

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The key is do you like the loquat flavor enough that it’s worth the effort? Take it as a given that most of the current sweet is removed and for stability it is acidified making the taste more like Chardonnay.
At this stage in my winemaking career it’s not really “effort”. More of a “wow, I made wine that tastes like wine”. I’m not looking for sweet fruity flavor I want a dryer wine that you can tell was made with fruit I guess. But yes loquat flavor is something else yumm.
Plus the fact that I have plenty of loquats. I made jam a few years ago but you can only eat so much jam. Wine on the other hand…..
 
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At this stage in my winemaking career it’s not really “effort”. More of a “wow, I made wine that tastes like wine”. I’m not looking for sweet fruity flavor I want a dryer wine that you can tell was made with fruit I guess. But yes loquat flavor is something else yumm.
Fruit wines typically need some level of backsweetening to bring out the fruit aroma and flavors. However, very little is needed -- I'm a dry wine drinker and have backsweetened wines from 0.990 to 0.994, which did what *I* needed. The wine is barely off-dry, but has the flavor I wanted.

Some folks backsweeten a lot more. Go by what your taste is and what the wine tastes like.
 

Rice_Guy

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I have been there, :hug when working in pasta sauce one can only give away so many sauces or salsa. Humm I still have 2001 strawberry jam on the shelf and 2014 tomato/basil and last spring year gave away five gallons of rhubarb juice and . . . ,
Plus the fact that I have plenty of loquats. I made jam a few years ago but you can only eat so much jam. Wine on the other hand…..
my answer/ my wine style is use 100% fruit, ,,, since I garden.
 
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